Last post on Jun 30, 2013 at 5:17 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Honda Accord, Sedan
#47 of 1161 Acura 3.2 TL vs Honda Accord EX V6 (part 2)
Jan 27, 2001 (7:54 pm)
I have a 1998 Accord EXV6 and have had no problems with it. The quality, fit and finish is excellent, so I guess the Ohio plant is doing well. Wiyh regards to the Maxima, that rear end is soooooo ugly I would never buy one. Also, the cost of a top of the line Maxima (SE) model is almost the same as the TL. After checking both vehicles out, how could you possibly choose the Maxima. I can also tell you without a doubt, in order to get a Maxima with all the things the EXV6 has, you have to get the SE, which is at least 3000K more in Canada.
Jan 27, 2001 (8:56 pm)
Apparently the pricing structure is somewhat different in Canada than the US. Here, the GLE is the top-end Max, not the SE, and the SE is priced just above the Accord V-6 and way below the TL. I concede the Max's external design is not without weirdness. Overall I can live with this, as I think the car looks fairly graceful in silver with the SE 17" wheels and spoiler that I have on the SE. I guess I am OK with a controversial, arguably-ugly car that is a blast to drive, as opposed to my flagrantly bland-but-inoffensive dark-green Accord.
I did not find the TL or the Accord V-6 a plausible alternative for 2001 cars, since I dislike automatic transmissions, and, again, my '98 Accord displayed laughably slow steering and comical amounts of body roll and nose dive along with a harsh ride (which I assume was designed-in to the car's suspension and not a manufacturing defect). The Maximas are readily available here right at invoice and offer a much sportier driving experience than the TL or Accord. To each his own I guess, but to me the current Accord is a more-reliable Buick Century.
My experience with my Accord has reinforced my frankly racist view of car manufacturing (and I say this as a white American!). I assume Honda runs a VERY tight ship in Marysville in terms of maintaining build quality, but those sorts of external controls are no substitute for the attitudes of individual Japanese workers taking great pride in building a product as perfect as possible. I have found that every Japanese-built Honda I have owned or regularly driven was beautifully built, and my American one was closer to a GM car in its overall build quality.
I do not mean to pick on Honda or on Honda owners. I was completely surprised by my junky Accord, and I am glad to hear that others have had better luck. At this point my opinion of American-built Hondas is irreparably queered. I hope I do not turn out to be a similarly-disgruntled Nissan owner!
In any event, I am through with this thread, as I really do not intend to pee on the Honda/Acura parade. I hope my horrid Honda was the exception rather than the rule, and best of luck to you all!
Jan 28, 2001 (11:54 am)
Actually, the possible reasons for the Honda and the Toyota factories in the US, being well above the rest of the US automotive plants, in producing quality products in the US, could be that no Honda or Toyota factory in the US is unionized, unlike the other US car products that have come in from Unionized plants.
Honda/Toyota have been successful in enthusing the workers through rigorous, continuous and compulsory training in their plants. The workers have not shown any desire to be Unionized even though union operatives did make multiple attempts to "organize" the workers at Honda/Toyota plants. In fact from what I hear, the "unionizers" were laughed out of the Honda/Toyota plants during their several unsuccessful attempts to "organize" the plants.
Union workers, as you may be aware, are able to bully themselves out of quite a few sticky activities, which others might probably get sacked for. In other words, they can get away with shoddy work practices and be assured that they would not/cannot (better not?!!) be "called to the mat" for it.
The quality products emanating from Honda/Toyota plants in the US are, IMHO, solely from being non-unionized and rigorous and compulsory training for the workers in cutting-edge technology and work practices - similar to that existing in Japan (leading to a lot of value addition to the workers themselves) in all facets of the plant, including the Quality Assurance department. Results from various departments are benchmarked from the parallel ones in Japan and compared/published with the quality benchmarks being continually raised every time one meets a benchmark; thus bringing out the competitive spirit among the workers (called associates) here, and encouraging them to exceed the standards (and achievements) of the Japanese brother plants.
Lack of quality and enthusiasm in their jobs (which is what results in shoddy workmanship) arises from a "we against them" mentality adopted by Union workers against the management - which is what one finds in most of the American plants (probably I believe you were referring to the work culture of such manufacturing plants and extrapolated them to well-run places like the Honda/Toyota plants ?).
#50 of 1161 Interesting post . . .
Jan 28, 2001 (12:01 pm)
Very informative post. I wonder whether the same principles apply in, say, the US BMW plants.
#51 of 1161 Subaru Legacy GT vs 2001 EXV6
Jan 29, 2001 (9:23 am)
Anyone know if the Subaru Legacy CT is a fair alternative to the Accord EXV6, with price, features, value, performance, reliability and safety all important factors for comparison?
#52 of 1161 2001 Accord V-6 question
Jan 29, 2001 (10:43 am)
I am not sure if this is a right forum...
But here is my q-n: have anyone driven both 98 V-6 accord and 2000-2001 v-6 accord? if yes, are there any improvements in noise-harshness-vibration? I recently traded in my 98 accord. Loved great engine, but was annoyed by harsh ride, loud road noise and vibration on the long trips, which was very fatiguing. the seats weren't too comfortable either IMO. Any input is appreciated.
Jan 29, 2001 (4:01 pm)
Re: Unionized vs. Nonunionized plants -- I agree with you 110%.
Jan 30, 2001 (7:25 am)
Thanks for the primer on Japanese made Hondas. After owning a Japanese built Accord and listening to the American vs. Japanese debate for 10 years I was a little leery about buying a non Japanese Honda (the CR-V would have been my choice but I was overruled) but so far so good with my Accord.
One question, if the TL/CL etc. use Japanese built transmissions, wouldn't the Accord V6 also? They use many of the same components so I would have to assume so.
I also wonder why the TL would have scored so much better in the JD Power survey than the Accord if they are made at the same factory? Are the employees working on the Acuras that much better? (if they are different, I assume they might interchange on which cars they work on).
I also agree with your union comments.
#55 of 1161 TL has
Jan 30, 2001 (9:36 am)
more stringent quality control which goes in justifying slightly more price than Accord eventhough features taken into conideration. Acuras have more round of tests than Accord I guess.
Jan 30, 2001 (10:43 am)
I don't know if I buy that. I worked in Quality Control and it's possible they might have more checks along the way for Acura but I doubt Honda would skimp on the Accord. Unless someone works at the factory we won't know for sure.
Also I don't think $4-6K (going by sticker) is "slightly more price". That's significant money.