Last post on Nov 10, 2009 at 6:48 PM
You are in the Mercedes-Benz C-Class
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Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Car Safety, Sedan
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Dec 22, 2001 (3:30 pm)
here is my point on oil.mobil 1 oil 8 quartz mercedes is saying change at 15000. granted the 8 quartz should'nt be changed every 2000 like most oils but i would change it every 5000 miles. the oil in your car is the lifeline. if you cant afford to do a oil change every couple of months then you should not be driven.FOR 10 20 OR EVEN 30 DOLLARS ISN'T IT WORTH THE PEACE OF MIND.
#5160 of 7297 TO SHIPO OIL CHANGES
Dec 22, 2001 (3:43 pm)
listen it is well documented about engine oil break down with alot of stop and go and short rides back and forth. listen if folks wanna believe changing oil once ayear is fine then i say roll the dice and good luck.if you really want your answer about mercedes benz schedule oil changes go to mbworld.org.you will find most mb owners are changing oil 2 even 3 times a year.YOU WOULD BE CRAZY NOT TO.
Dec 22, 2001 (5:02 pm)
brian125: First MBZ isn't saying change at 15K miles. It's saying change whenever FSS tells you to, which is a big difference. Mine is telling me 10K. And an oil change is not 10, 20 or 30 bucks. It's 60 bucks. Finally, peace of mind is following what the guys who made the car tells me.
So if the guys at mbworld.org all jump off a bridge I should too?
#5162 of 7297 Brian125
Dec 22, 2001 (5:04 pm)
I see that you are a religious man.
Given that your rhetoric contains no factual evidence that would indicate any problem with keeping your oil in the engine until the computer tells you to change it, my guess is that your information on why oil should be changed is either about as scientific as consulting tea leaves or woefully out of date.
Consider the following points:
Back when I started turning wrenches on cars, there was no such a thing as unleaded gas that was commercially available. Back then, oil was your basic Dino Juice and it was changed every 3,000 miles or so. At the time there were several experiments with synthetic oil, and they were basically failures. Why? Synthetic oil was proven (and has been re-proven many times since then) to be a very poor lead scavenger. The result was a soft gray buildup on the piston rings, not surprisingly, said gray buildup was primarily made up of lead. Given that we cannot even buy leaded gasoline these days, this leaves the door wide open for synthetic oil.
Modern engines that carry the LEV or the ULEV certification produce just a fraction of the of the combustion byproducts of engines from just 5 years ago (Mercedes-Benz or otherwise). Given that one of the primary jobs of engine oil is to keep said byproducts in suspension until they can be drained away at the next oil change, a massive reduction in those contaminates will allow for a longer oil change interval.
Modern engine oil, specifically Synthetic Oil, have far greater abilities to keep contaminates in suspension with no appreciable loss in lubricity. Couple that with the ability of Synthetic oil to shrug off the effects of water (older Dino Juice used to react with water and form acids) without any loss in lubricity, and you have an oil that can withstand longer oil change intervals without ANY additional engine wear.
Modern engine oil (once again, specifically Synthetic) is far more stable in extreme environments (high engine temps, high RPMs and extreme cold) than conventional oil, as such, it breaks down at a FAR slower rate when compared to the old stuff. Once again, this will reduce the necessity of frequent oil changes.
Many car manufacturers that recommend Synthetic oil and extended oil changes have seen fit to enlarge the capacity of the sump by as much as 100% over the capacity of engines from other manufacturers of similar size. Case in point, my 328i has an oil capacity of almost 8 quarts, I have seen similar sized six cylinder engines with a capacity of only 4 quarts. Twice the oil means twice the capacity to hold contaminates in suspension, lower oil temperatures (spends more time in the sump cooling), fewer passes through the oil galleries getting the #$*^%~! beat out of it, and a much greater margin of error for low oil. Yet again, longer oil change intervals are the result.
If all of this is not enough, when I was working for MBUSA in the mid 1990s, MB was testing a number of cars with Synthetic oil. A few of those cars only had the oil changed when the chemical analysis of the oil indicated that it was starting to degrade below acceptable minimums. Do you know what the average mileage was between changes on those cars turned out to be? Glad you asked, 25,000 miles.
FWIW, I have been contributing here at Town Hall for over 3 years, during that time, I have heard MANY folks preach frequent oil changes. So far, NOT ONE of said preachers has presented so much as a single shred of scientific evidence that indicates that changing out the Synthetic oil on a modern LEV engine (or ULEV for that matter) will amount to even 1 extra mile of engine life. If you can, I am all ears. If you cannot, I suggest that you do your own research into the issue, trying your best to ignore the bilge that most folks spout about this issue.
Dec 22, 2001 (6:25 pm)
Well put.....and I believe accurate.
#5164 of 7297 to shipo re oil
Dec 22, 2001 (7:36 pm)
well said about oil. i'm not leaving oil in my car for 10 or 15 k miles.60 bucks every four five months gives me piece of mind. i'm not relying on my computer to tell me oil change. sorry i like to walk with the light.most people i know who own cars for 12- 15 years with 200 or 300 thou. miles were changing oil every 3 or four months.i like to hear from people who are on the flip side of my statement.i have never but could be wrong heard of any body owning a car for 12 to 15 years that changed there oil every 7,8,10,15k miles. i would bet that it had a motor or trany change. who in this forum can vouch on this statement. i bet not many. PEOPLE LEASE CARS ABUSE THEM FOR 3 YRS AND GIVE THEM BACK.i dont see many folks today holding on to cars long.HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL.
#5165 of 7297 TO CITC RE OIL
Dec 22, 2001 (7:49 pm)
citC if your computer dosen't come on for a oil change you may be able to just get away with it and save 60 dollars.time will tell all you folks 10 12 years down the road i'll be in this forum telling you guys i told you so. anyway i'm looking to buy either a 2002 or 03 clk430 the rumor out there is there changing the car plus possibly a bigger motor. HAS ANYBODY HEARD THIS OR SEEN A PICTURE OF THE UP AND COMMING CLK.
#5166 of 7297 Hee hee, this is fun
Dec 22, 2001 (8:07 pm)
So Shipo, you write that in real world trials, Mercedes-Benz found that its cars running on synthetic oil would go a mean of 25,000 miles before the oil began to break down. That is good. But what was the standard deviation? Until we know that vital piece of information, I will assume that the SD was small.
In that case, why would the FSS in a modern, cleaner Benz say the oil should be changed at as little as 8000 miles? Is Mercedes-Benz being that wasteful of perfectly good oil? Should everyone should wait until their FSS indicator goes on and then double their mileage on the same oil?
I would therefore be interested to see the algorhythm that M-B uses in its FSS. Until we know how it makes its decisions, and the research results that support the sensor calibrations and decision matrix for the FSS, debates such as this are inevitable.
That said, what Shipo wrote was very good - particularly the fact that cleaner cars contaminate the oil less and synthetics are much more resistant than refined mineral oils. Another variable, however, is the cleanliness of the fuel, something that Canada is not notorious for. Our fuel has huge levels of Sulphur in it, which makes even the cleanest engine create nasty combustion by-products which contaminate the oil. I assume that the FSS proxy measurement for oil contamination/viscosity breakdown is capable of accommodating this variable. Which is, once again, why I'd like to know A LOT more about FSS before I trust it implicitly.
About the Renault situation, they are not in North America for no other reason than the French are the world's worst marketing strategists. Incompetence would be too kind a description for these guys.
I've owned a total of four examples of the Renault 5 (Le Car to the US) over the past 24 years, and each of them was a perfectly fine vehicle. They demand some care and attention - for example, they are not like a Toyota, where the hood can rust shut and it won't matter because the fluid levels never vary. In a Renault, the fluids do need to be checked occasionally. Many of them died prematurely because of ignorant owners who thought that basic meaitenance was a luxury they couldn't afford. People who buy inexpensive cars often subject them to the most hideous abuse like that.
Dec 22, 2001 (8:29 pm)
Being the resident "Old F**t" I can well remember the first few new cars I bought. Really low four figure price, (first new car, a convertible, $1,895) ninety day/1,000 mile warranty, required oil change intervals - 1.000 miles. Time has passed, technology improved, oil change intervals have grown and at each change the "True Believers" have howled that the sky was falling and the Luddites have cried that " My Granddaddy changed his oil at XXXX miles; my Daddy changed his oil at XXXX miles and they'd turn over in their graves if I didn't change my oil at XXXX miles.
As Shipo said, show your factual evidence.
"...My friends all drive Porsches, I must make AMENDS..." J. Joplin
Dec 22, 2001 (10:44 pm)
people who are relying on this FSS system to change there oil i think are nuts.hopefully they took the extended warranty.in prev. post to citc he wont listen to fellowMB owners about oil changes but he will wait for his light to go on in his system to say its time. i hope all theses people are leasing.