Last post on Jun 28, 2011 at 8:52 AM
You are in the Mercedes Benz S-Class Sedan
What is this discussion about?
Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Car Leasing, Sedan
#1164 of 2088 And Merc1 responds with...
Apr 23, 2002 (9:27 pm)
Well then you must be among them them cause you have a deflating value Cadillac. If you think Cadillac's hold up so much better then why don't you go to a used car lot than sells luxury cars and see for yourself why nobody wants to pay anything for a Cadillac. Just because Cadillac's resale is so poor isn't Mercedes' fault. Cadillac is still paying for the junk they've built of the last 20 years. Period. Until 1998 Cadillac had not car that was worth mentioning. Period.
Where did I say that sales=reliability? Where oh where? The DeVille is a old folks car first and foremost and the S500 will blow it off the road. If the DeVille isn't more exciting than the S-Class then why do you keep pointing to the Deville when you speak of the S-Class. The S-Class has the car beat in so many area's it's pathetic to even compare to two. No comment on the MT comparo right? Thought not, since you live by books and such.
I said Mercedes sells more cars because the feeble merits that Cadillac may haven't aren't enough anymore. Lexus, BMW and Mercedes are all knee deep in Cadillac's.... And you'd better watch out for Acura. I didn't not point out sales to illustrate that MB's were the highest quality cars on the market.
#1165 of 2088 markhampton
Apr 23, 2002 (9:43 pm)
""""Fact: For 2002, CR gave the S-Class a rating of 2 out of 5 (CR, April 2002, 57).
Fact: The S-Class is ranked below the Deville in reliability (CR, April 2002, 27).
Fact: You will not find an Escalade or an Eldorado anywhere on CR's "used cars to avoid" list. The Catera was not on the list after 1999. That leaves the Seville which, like the S-Class, ranks lower than the Deville in reliability. Evidently you're hanging your hat on a car that will be out of production by the end of the year. Sad.""""
Where are the CL, SL, E, and C Class on the list? The Seville isn't going out production by the end of the year. What are you on? So I guess the fact that Cadillac hasn't been able to make the Seville reliable in over 5 years means that it's excused because it's due to be replaced soon. That is the biggest pile or BullS ever. So what are the people who want a Seville NOW supposed to do? Are you telling me that the all new Seville is due for 2003? Duh it isn't.
The Escalade is a Chevy truck, and the Eldorado is an antique. Yeah that's real impressive the Chevy (mass produced and kinks worked out by testing it on Chevy customers first) and the 10 year old Eldorado that should have at least be trouble free NOW after all these years of producing them.
"A Deville and a Q45 would get trounced in a comparo with a S-Class"
Yep that's what I said. Don't you read. MT already did this comparo, minus the Q45 and guess who won and who got a mutthole kicked in their hood.
You talk about me giving predictions, but yet you've already come to the conclusion that the CTS would have beat the C-Class in C&D last comparo, yet you don't want to acknowledge MT's comparo when the DTS got creamed. Pure hypocritical nonsense from you as always.
""You're living the dream of the past and ignoring the problems of the present. Without a doubt,
MB built some good cars in the past. Newer MB's, however, have gained a reputation for being
"de-contented" or "cheapened" -- take the adjective of your choice. If you're in the market for a new car you can do better than a Mercedes.""
You almost got it right. They've been de-contented from previous cars, but the previous cars were over the top to begin with. You must have gone to that used car lot in between post. You still want to sit here and give an uninformed opinion, seeing as though you have no experience with Mercedes cars. Yes you give surveys, but that's all you have to give, yet I tell you I've been in MB cars for more than just a drive around the block and yet you discredit that, so why would anyone care about your continious posting of the same mess over and over again.
All you have is your surveys.
I wish! You got me mixed up with V12power, he has a S600 and a 750iL.
#1166 of 2088 You consistently equate sales with superiority
Apr 23, 2002 (9:44 pm)
After losing the quality debate, you moved on to the "sales = superiority" argument. That was your comeback when you finally relented on MBs abysmal record of reliability and service. When presented with the facts, you moved on to a new falacy.
I have admitted that Cadillac's resale value is not as good as MB's, although the difference isn't dramatic as you might think. Of course, it's unlikely that you have any personal experience in this arena, so it comes as no surprise that you know little about these cars' relative resale values.
What matters in the end is what the car is worth when you sell it, as a percentage of it's purchase price. When you take Cadillac's discounting into account, the two are not far apart. Certainly not far enough apart to justify spending an extra $30k on the less reliable S-Class. When I was looking for a car in this class, I ran the numbers on the S-Class. Even when taking resale value into account, the S-Class was considerably more expensive. I just couldn't justify it.
#1167 of 2088 markhampton
Apr 23, 2002 (9:45 pm)
Why are you posting different responses in different forums? Are you trying to confuse anyone that would figure out the BS you're peddling here? You talk about how dumb consumers are for ignoring things like CR rating the Seville as an "avoid" car year after year, and the fact that Cadillac resale is pitiful at best, yet you bought into it. Says a lot.
#1168 of 2088 markhampton
Apr 23, 2002 (9:50 pm)
Oh please you keep posting the same mess over and over. All you have is your surveys and if you think every S-Class and every Mercedes dealer is so awful you're even more clueless than you sound. The fact remains that the S-Class is better car overall than a DeVille, and yes they have been compared. Yet you still make no mention of it.
Now you turn around and try to down play Cadillac's terrible resale with "they're being discounted". Thank you proves my point. They have to be discounted to move in the first place. Thats a sign of a true qualtiy car in a wide-open market such as the current one. Only bottom feeder cars are being heavily discounted. Acura's RL comes to mind, yet let you tell it Cadillac is so much better.
#1169 of 2088 I've driven MBs and I wasn't impressed
Apr 23, 2002 (9:54 pm)
You presume too much, fool.
I drove the SLK for a week. Not impressed. I drove the current incarnation of the E-class for a day. Very unimpressed. What's up with that stupid E-Class transmission anyway? When I press the gas pedal down, I want it to downshift. GM knows how to make a transmission that behaves properly. I guess that's why BMW is using GM transmissions now.
I didn't drive an S-Class. Why pay more for a car that is proven to be less dependable?
My father owned an MB and will never buy another one. I don't recall the model, but I do remember him complaining about it needing a valve job and a new automatic transmission before it hit 70k miles.
These were my MB experiences. What is the extent of your Cadillac experience?
#1170 of 2088 All you have is your lame opinion
Apr 23, 2002 (9:56 pm)
And it isn't worth squat since you don't own either of these cars.
Apr 23, 2002 (10:09 pm)
No, I don't read MT. I read C&D and R&T occasionally, however. Do you read MT between cereal boxes?
As I have said, Mr. Incomprehendo, magazines place more importance on track performance than day-to-day driveability and dependability. If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.
I personally don't care much about track performance, but if that's what you want then you should check out the CTS. Especially when it's fitted with a 400hp aluminum block V8. Since you're interested in predictions, I'll give you one: The CTSi will eat a similar class MB alive on the track.
Enough of this for tonight. I'll read and respond to the remainder of your drivel tomorrow.
#1172 of 2088 markhampton
Apr 23, 2002 (10:19 pm)
Goes to show who the "fool" is. YOU HAVEN'T EVEN DRIVEN AN S-CLASS!!! So be quiet. The SLK has nothing to do with this discussion. I'm really starting to enjoy this. My Cadillac experience you ask. There are two STSs and one DeVille in my family (actual relatives). The Sevilles are 1998 and 1999 models. One has been very reliable and the other (1998) has been junk. The 1999 DeVille has also been typical GM mess. Unlike you I can't tell you about the good points too. All three have nice interiors and good power for enthusiastic driving. The current Seville is easily one of the best looking cars on the road and is virtually timeless in that respect. The problem with the Seville is all that power to the front wheels, which is really unsettling if accelerating on a less then glass smooth surface. There is also a 1997 E420 (relative) , 2000 S500 (friend of a friend), 2000 C230K (neighbor), 1993 600SEL (distant relative) 1996 Lexus SC300 (best friend), 2002 BMW X5 4.6is (ex-friend (whole 'nother story), 2000 Lexus RX300 (relative), 1998 BMW 540iA (neighbor), 2001 GS430 (friend) and a 1994 Q45 (relative) around. The ones I listed are all people who's cars I have no trouble borrowing, a many I have driven out of town with, spending hours upon hours behind the wheel. Out of all of these only the 1998 540i and the two of the Cadillacs have been troublesome. The 2000 S500 had a bad gauge cluster and CD changer unit that took 2 attempts to fix, the 1997 E420, and 1993 600SEL have been flawless. The C230K has been about average. Admitedly the most reliable have been the Lexuses. The Q45 is reliable, but man does it cost to have work done on it.
All in all your week in a SLK and test drive of an E-Class pales in comparison to my experiences. Period. Now back to your surveys.
#1173 of 2088 markhampton
Apr 23, 2002 (10:26 pm)
If you'd bother to read you'd know that MT didn't base their decisions soley on "track time". Now you're predicting again, cause you have nothing to base anything on in the NOW.
"". If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure
it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.""
Now your're telling me that the S-Class won the comparo because it's a track star? Oh gawd man get a grip on reality. The S-Class beat the pants off the DeVille in the same things most Cadillac owners look for in their precious Deville.
You mean to tell me you've gathered all your intelligence based on one issue of CR and a JD powers survey. Looks that way to me. You don't even read the magazines, and here I though you were at least a half-informed Cadillacer. Turns out you'll likely keep posting the same CR and JD links.