Last post on Aug 14, 2010 at 8:21 AM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Lexus ES 300, Lexus ES 330, Sedan
Aug 25, 2003 (6:01 am)
It looks like the navigation option on 2004 Lexus models is still $2000 (at least on kbb.com for the IS 300).
However, this weekend I was with a friend looking at the 2004 Toyota Solara. It had the nav, the same unit as in the ES 300 (just slightly updated). Packaged with an upgraded JBL radio the nav was $1,350! That's a heck of a lot less for the same equipment and it really surprised me.
#3949 of 5443 lenscap - navigation apples to apples
Aug 25, 2003 (7:27 am)
You might want to compare the ES300 Nav with the Camry's. At least for 2002, they are identical.
If anyone wants the new DVD, they might try and get it from Toyota instead of Lexus.
Don't know why you are surprised. It is well known that just about everything on a Lexus is more expensive from a Lexus dealer.
I lost one of my keys and it costs $150 to replace from the dealer in Bakersfield. Also, the dealer said it costs $40 just to reprogram your keys.
Aug 25, 2003 (9:14 am)
I think you misunderstood me. When I refer to the price of the nav, I'm talking about the unit itself as a factory option, not the updates.
Navs in general have been the same price regardless of whether it is a luxury car or not. Since navs came out (I think Lexus first offered them in 1998), navs have been $2,000. And nav prices in general have been $2,000 for cars such as the new Accord, Acuras, Infinitis, Nissans, etc.
So when the price of a nav all of a sudden drops on a Camry from $2,000 in 2003 to $1,350 in 2004 that's big news to me.
#3952 of 5443 ACTIVE SUSPENSION
Aug 25, 2003 (11:44 am)
Anyone have any more to say abou the active variable suspension, virtues or vices? Appreciate comments from people who have it.
Aug 25, 2003 (12:15 pm)
Isnt air suspension NOT the same as AVS?
Aug 25, 2003 (1:43 pm)
alpha01 - AVS is air suspension. It utilizes air pressure to adjust the damping rate. You'll see it mentioned as "Adaptive Variable Air Suspension (AVS)" on various Lexus pages, such as this one:
"I'm not sure why people think the repair costs would be high - I'd like to see some proof."
Lenscap - Common sense perhaps. If you can offer me an adaptive air suspension strut at the same price as a coil spring, I'll take you up on it. They're known to develop air leaks over time, and be expensive to replace. I've seen Lexus air suspension struts with a list price of over $1000. Price will vary based on model year and front or rear strut(s).
Aug 25, 2003 (1:59 pm)
Kreativ - Thanks for your input. The AVS on the ES is not the same as the air suspension on the LS. They are similar, but not the same. The version on the ES is not an "air" suspension like on the LS.
For the heck of it, I just called the Lexus dealer in Beverly Hills, CA and spoke to someone in service. The gentleman said it is very rare for a strut on an AVS-equipped ES to leak. In the case that they do need to be replaced, he said they are about $300 vs. $200 on an ES with the standard suspension. So yes, they are a little more, but it seems they don't leak too often (your price must have been for the more expensive LS struts).
If somebody is looking for a car with the lowest chance of having things break then I would not suggest a car as advanced as the ES. A cheaper car would not have items such as skid control, brake assist, AVS, navigation, etc...all things that could break. As I said previously, I have nav in my car. If it breaks I'm sure it's a lot of money to fix, but that didn't prevent me from getting it. The same is true of the AVS - I wasn't going to avoid it because of potential problems down the road.
Aug 25, 2003 (2:05 pm)
Yes, they were for the LS struts. Comparatively, $300 isn't bad at all. I presume it still is an "air" suspension, unless they've managed to be able to adjust the damping rate without using air pressure.
Anyways, I think AVS is something someone just has to try for him/herself. A Road and Track writer is likely not to desire the same type of ride as the target ES buyer. I would probably like the AVS (had it on an LS), most ES buyers probably wouldn't care for it.
Aug 25, 2003 (2:15 pm)
Getting back to the benefits of AVS, it enhances the handling, ride stability and ride comfort. Kreativ makes an excellent point - somebody needs to drive an AVS car and see whether it is right for them (and worth $600). Most ES buyers would not care.
For those interested in learning more, below is the part of the 1997 ES 300 press release that talks about the system (note the ES system is based on the LS system but is not the same):
"An optional Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) system makes true semi-active damping available in a near-luxury car for the first time. Based on the LS 400's semi-active air suspension, the AVS monitors engine and vehicle speed, steering wheel movement, braking, acceleration and the vehicle's vertical motions to continuously control shock absorber damping in concert with road and driving conditions. Each shock absorber can be adjusted in as little as 0.0025 seconds with a possible range of 16 settings.
As a result, each wheel's suspension can adjust itself continuously over each bump. The system reduces dive and squat under braking and acceleration, detects rapid steering wheel movements and will stiffen shock damping on the outboard side for flatter cornering. A vertical g-sensor can discriminate between low, medium and high frequency body movements and signal the damping system to combat such conditions as freeway "chop" and body float over undulating roads.
In order to tailor the suspension characteristics to many different tastes, a driver-adjustable AVS control permits selection of soft, normal, sport or hard damping ranges from among the 16 possible settings. Consequently, the need to offer a separate "sport" or "touring" suspension package with associated compromises in ride comfort is eliminated."
Improvements in the system for 2002 yield better road and steering feel and quicker turn-in response.