Last post on Aug 14, 2010 at 9:21 AM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Lexus ES 300, Lexus ES 330, Sedan
Jul 31, 2002 (4:13 pm)
I don't think extra power means much to most buyers looking at the ES 300. Yes, it will sway some people. But not everybody. It didn't matter to me.
The same reasoning goes for cars like the all-new, redesigned 2003 Mercedes CLK and E320. Both cars will keep their 221 HP engines. And both are slower than the 2002 versions since they are heavier. As a matter of fact, they're just about as quick as the ES 300 with a 0-60 time around eight seconds. And these cars cost well over $50,000.
If you can, check out the latest issue of Car magazine (a publication in Europe). They test the all-new CLK against the BMW 330Ci, Volvo and Renault. The Mercedes is one of the slowest of the group, yet they place it in first. They say that everything combined makes it the best car, even if it is not the fastest. That's exactly how I feel about the ES 300.
Lexus should not increase HP just because the Accord now has 140. The Altima has had that much for a year and it hasn't hurt Lexus sales. Similarly, Mercedes and BMW will not be rushing to increase their HP either beacuse of what the Accord has.
Lexus knows what's its doing. Right now the ES 300 is hot and the extra HP won't do much for sales. But as interest decreases over the next year or two, as happens with cars, you'll see the ES 330 or ES 350 come out.
I bought my car for the exterior look, beuatiful interior, hushed ride and superior dealer service. In my mind, no car in the $35,000 range comes close.
Jul 31, 2002 (6:05 pm)
Well then, let's just add Camry's sales to the ES 300's and see who's ahead.
#2934 of 5443 lenscap - You said it.
Jul 31, 2002 (6:23 pm)
And I couldn't have said it any better.
#2935 of 5443 To: JM Davis: Re CD Changer Problem 2002 ES
Jul 31, 2002 (6:55 pm)
I had previously written that I had a problem with my 6 Disc Changer as CD's got jammed in it and I could not remove them. I brought it in last thursday to the dealership and they removed the changer and ordered me a new one. The new one was installed today and works perfectly. They sent the old one out and will remove my cd's and mail them back to me. I was treated very nicely and it was all covered as warranty work. So far, my 2002 ES has 18500 miles and I am quite pleased with it.By the way, wht are they changing with the 2003 ES? I would imagine the only change would be the addition or deletion of a few colors? Does anyone know more than that?
#2936 of 5443 To "kreativ" and "neuroguy"
Jul 31, 2002 (7:29 pm)
Fellas, my final post on 2002 ES300 price (should make your guys feel better)
I made a mistake. The car does NOT have Vehicle Skid Control (RF) and the price is $31,957. RF is
$520 in terms of Invoice goes which means this price is about $520 over invoice price.
Bought a black/ivory one today this price, though I *might* be able to knock down another couple of hundred bucks, who knows? Just thought those sales people need to make a living as well... Favorite ext. color actually is blue, they don't have that, have to settle with a black. Comparing specs on paper, Camry and ES300 is about the same size, somehow i feel ES300 is smaller than Camry when i am in it and also don't feel 02 ES300 is bigger than previous generation. Maybe I did not feel it right or deceived by its ext. contour.
Jul 31, 2002 (7:44 pm)
Would I have liked an '02 ES with more power? Sure...I'm not going to argue with more power for the money. Would I have purchased another car because there was no power increase in the '02 ES? Obviously not, since I have the car now. And Lexus knows this. Let's face it. They're in this business to make money. They're going to sell more cars by splitting up the redesign and the engine upgrade. If they packed it all into the '02 ES, they wouldn't have much left to garner interest a couple years down the road when their competitors are releasing new cars.
So they'll top sales this year based on the redesign, the luxury edge, etc. etc. etc. Then they'll up the power a couple years from now, give things a marketing spin with the name change to ES330, and sell even more cars based on a "brand new" ES.
#2938 of 5443 ES300 COMPETITION
Jul 31, 2002 (8:32 pm)
My general point was that luxury features gradually trickle down to mass market vehicles. Compare the '03 Accord, for example, with the first generation Accord of 20 years or so ago. As mass market vehicles acquire luxury features (at lower than luxury prices), there's constant pressure on the luxury & near-luxury cars to maintain the distance, move ahead, push the envelope, acquire new luxury features that mass market cars don't yet have, etc. It was in that sense that I argued that there is now pressure on Lexus, with the ES300 and the GS300 to make engine upgrades and at least approximate if not equal the power offered by lower-priced cars. No one is arguing that people will stop buying the ES300 because it has slightly less power than lower priced cars. But it's one factor, easily quantifiable and easy to compare at that (240, 230, 220, etc.)and it drives the market.
Jul 31, 2002 (8:46 pm)
Blue would have been my first choice, too, but there weren't any on the lot or in the pipeline to my dealer - would have had to order one. I got the silver with gray interior. Don't know why the blue is on the scarce side. You still did extremely well on the price, btw. Congratulations on your new ride! Enjoy!
Jul 31, 2002 (10:33 pm)
Congrats on your purchase! Let us know how you like it after some time behind the wheel.
Aug 01, 2002 (5:36 am)
When can we expect the ES300 to make its final curtain call, and the ES330 to make its debut?
If its possible, this is what I would *like* to see.
For the 2004 redesigns due out in early Spring 03, the Lexus RX will get the 3.3L. At the same time, the GS300 will hopefully move to a more powerful version (or new design) of its straight six, allowing the ES to gain more power (I'm sure Toyota is scared of cannibalization).
In the fall of 2003, for the 2004 MY, the ES can go to the 3.3L V6, while the Camry will finally get VVTi for the 3.0 V6, and be retuned to make the 220hp of the Highlander/current RX (same retuning for the Avalon). In fall of 2004, for the 2005 MY, the Avalon (for its redesign) and Highlander (for its 4th model year freshening) go to the 3.3L V6.
**This just represents my ideas, and in no way do I claim it to be economically efficient, or productively viable- just changes I would like to see happen****
What does anyone think?