Last post on Aug 14, 2010 at 8:21 AM
You are in the Lexus ES
What is this discussion about?
Lexus ES 300, Lexus ES 330, Sedan
#1406 of 5443 Cross-shopping
Sep 25, 2001 (4:52 pm)
I own a 93 ES 300, and am "cross-shopping" for a similar sedan. I have narrowed it down to the Lexus and the Mercedes C Class. Lenscap asked the rhetorical question as to whether a brand name matters. In my opinion, it does. However, it does not matter because of status, but because of reliability.
For example, my wife owns a 1995 Volvo 960 with 80,000 miles on it. The car has had repeated problems, and we have spent at least $2,500 on extraordinary repairs on the car. My Lexus ES 300, in comparison, has 152,000 miles, and never needed any extraordinary repairs until 130,000 miles.
Indeed, when I read the posts on the C Class, I notice that people have little problems like trucks not opening, keys not working, etc. although I would like to get a different car, having driven an ES for nearly 9 years, I am hesitant to switch brands given the reliability of the Lexus model.
Put simply, when you buy a Lexus, you are buying reliability. European cars will simply cost more to maintain. For people like me, who rely on their cars for work, that is a serious consideration.
Sep 25, 2001 (7:42 pm)
I couldn't agree with you more. I'm in the market for a new car, and my choices were Audi, Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. But then I think of reliability, and the only brand car out of the ones I want that I'm left with is Lexus. My '91 Lexus LS400 has been trouble-free ever since we bought it back in '90. My friends with Lexuses (Lexi? hehe) also have had great reliability track records with their cars. On the other hand, I have friends with BMWs and Mercedes, both old and brand new, that have had all sorts of problems with their cars and complain to me quite often. Not to mention my dad, who vowed never to buy another Mercedes again after his experience. Of course, this doesn't mean that all German cars have poor build quality, as I'm sure there are Mercedes out there that go trouble-free for years on end. And vice versa, that it doesn't mean all Lexus cars are ultra reliable. But given my own personal experience, it's hard to justify going with any other brand. So yes, to me, brand really does matter. There are certain models from the German manufacturers that if it was instead made by Lexus, I'd pick it over any car in the Lexus lineup. But unfortunately, that's not the case.
#1410 of 5443 My ES300 thoughts
Sep 25, 2001 (10:37 pm)
In making a decision, it came down to the 2001 GS300 or the 2002 ES300. The only appeal of the 2001 GS300 for me was the extremely low price (vs. sticker/invoice) and the fact that the 2001 and 2002 year GS300 were basically the same. The 2001 GS300 was at $34,699 base, which I believe is even under the published invoice price.
However, despite the fact that I'm not too hot about how both cars look, I liked the 2002 ES300 better. The interior of the ES really won me over...it appears much more refined than the GS. If I hadn't known how much the cars' MSRPs were, I would've thought the 2002 ES300 to be the more expensive car.
And looking at the options, the only thing I really want is the leather package, which is basically on most all the ES's. According to Lenscap's figures, that would put the sticker price including shipping to around $33,600. Beats me why everyone's focusing on the car being in the high $30k range when you can get a nicely equipped one for under $34K sticker. That's value to me, and an investment in reliability. Sure, the Mark Levinson system will kick some booty, but if the standard Lexus premium audio system is anything like the one in my current and old LS, it's no slouch either. If it's like the audio system in the IS300 though, that's a different story.
If you can wait a year (I can't), I'd suggest waiting for the 2003 ES instead. It'll probably get a better engine with more horsepower to level the field with its 260hp competition, and maybe some minor changes to the styling to address the complaints. All for probably the same price. Unfortunately, I can't wait that long. If I could, I'd get the 2003 Nissan Z instead.
You've had 6 Lexus cars in your family?? Geez, no wonder you know so much about these cars. Anyways, thanks for all the info you provide here.
Sep 26, 2001 (4:48 am)
when you say sticker will be 33,600 does that mean
that you expect to pay $33,600 or would you expect
to get that car at a lower price as demand lessens
during the yr.
Sep 26, 2001 (7:07 am)
Your post is kinda, well, stupid. Comparing a S4 to a ES300 is ridiculous. Sure the S4 offers a performance advantage but the ES300 offers a luxury advantage. Alot of the stuff you speak of is your opinion. ie. looks and style. As far as the ES300 compared to both the S4 and A6, it can be said that both of those cars offer less than the ES300 in some key areas. those being quality, reliability & luxury. And for $40K you will be driving a bare bones A6. For example, a ES300 without NAV, chrome wheels, and ML stereo, and AVS will cost about $35K MSRP. A Audi A6 2.8 FWD with similar options will cost about $38K. Take a 2.8 Quattro and you're starting at $37K. Fully loaded $45K. And Quattro isn't necessarily a plus.
And to check reality, go check out prices on BMW 330i's, C320's on your time off from trying to bash the ES300. A loaded C320 runs over $50K! And you get less room and only a few more key features. A 330i can run into the mid-$40Ks, and again you get only a few more significant features and less room on all counts.
And a Volvo XC? Isn't that a station wagon? Well, then, take a Lexus RX300. Much better than a Volvo XC. And a GS300 starts at $38K or so, loaded you're in the mid to high $40,000 range.
Sep 26, 2001 (8:07 am)
No one has even mentioned the awesome fuel economy of the new car--it is 21/29 averaging 25+--well also just wait a few months-it is very feasible to get a fully loaded ES for 36.5K or so as I have been told--the invoice max-s at 35.1K--also I think let us respect each other's opinions--someone may like leather only but someone may really want Nav--some really like bigger and shinier wheels--let us leave that to each individual and I also think it is unfair to call any post "stupid"---that is not good courtesy
I also think you cannot buy every car and there are a lot of good cars--each car has to be judged on its own merit--comparisons lead no where but confusion-
Sep 26, 2001 (10:06 am)
comparisons lead TO no where but confusion --- when biased people make completely biased statements & entire posts.
Otherwise comparisons can be very helpful.