Last post on Mar 24, 2013 at 11:51 AM
You are in the BMW 3-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Sedan
#19355 of 30250 Engine Configuration and Safety
Aug 06, 2002 (10:33 am)
huntzinger... A brief "About the Book" description hardly indicates it has anything to do with the specific subject under discussion. If it does, please post a link to the specific section(s) or e-mail me the relevant portions. Believe my address is in my profile. I'd love to learn more about the specific subject we've been discussing.
As mentioned in prior posts, there is a difference between crash test results in a artificially controlled setting (e.g., NHTSA and IIHS labs) and actual real world results (e.g., as reported by individuals who have been in crashes and by insurance companies that must determine premiums based on experienced data). The miniscule sample size for both NHTSA and IIHS tests does significantly limit some conclusions that might be drawn at a statistically significant level. Both testing agencies carefully caveat their results. That is where actual results in the real world (i.e., non-controlled setting) come into play. One needs to look carefully at the entire universe of relevant data, laboratory and otherwise.
Would be interesting to see NHTSA and IIHS each crash ten BMW I6 3 Series and ten MB V6 C-class and report the individual results, mean, and standard deviation.
Would also be interesting to look at the correlation between 6-cyl engine configuration and safety. My hypothesis: Since 1990 I6s in passenger vehicles show a significant positive correlation with front impact safety results in both laboratory and real world. Why? Unlike V6s, there aren't many and the primary users have been in safety-conscious marques like BMW (3 & 5 Series), Lexus (IS300), MB (pre-introduction of V6s), and Volvo (S80).
There are a tremendous number of factors that come into play regarding safety. Engine configuration is only one of a large set of variables. And engine configuration might only be a variable in a smaller sub-set of total crashes involving front end collision but is not likely any factor at all in all the other sub-sets of crashes (rear, side, rollover, and not even in some offset front impacts).
Aug 06, 2002 (10:42 am)
now don't go confusing the argument by introducing real live fact into it...
#19357 of 30250 Windshield Replacement
Aug 06, 2002 (10:52 am)
I got a chip knocked out of my windshield, tried to have it repaired, but need a new windshield. One shop offered me a choice of BMW glass or an after-market equivalent. The after-market is about $200 cheaper. Is it as good? What should I be concerned about? Thanks
Aug 06, 2002 (11:37 am)
Thanks for the info! I've relayed it to my friend (who usually takes my advice when it comes to cars for some reason) and he's going to look into it.
Yeah I have an idea how you drive, but isn't the Audi your wife's car? j/k
Thanks again for the help!
Aug 06, 2002 (11:48 am)
Do you not have glass coverage in your insurance? If so you don't have to pay for anything and can of course opt for the OEM glass.
#19360 of 30250 Windshield Replacement
Aug 06, 2002 (12:09 pm)
What year and model is your 3 Series? (You should update your profile here at Edmunds. Shows you own a Cadillac.) Is this a new car still under warranty? I couldn't imagine buying a non-BMW windshield.
I'd be willing to pay the $200 difference, but you have to pay the insurance deductible either way. Who is your insurance company? My insurance company, USAA, has an excellent glass repair and replacement system. They have an extensive network. I've only had to replace one windshield in past 13 years I've had USAA. But have had at least a dozen good glass repairs during that time.
Aug 06, 2002 (1:01 pm)
A brief "About the Book" description hardly indicates it has anything to do with the specific subject under discussion. If it does, please post a link to the specific section(s) ...
I'm not going to even try to summarize a 400 page copyrighted technical textbook. Take the listed ISBN and plug it in to Amazon and find a copy to buy. The few pages that you can read online hardly even breaks the surface.
I'd love to learn more about the specific subject we've been discussing.
The brief bottom line is that for the level of impact we're talking about, the engine block is for practical purposes a rigid object that's not going to significantly deform to absorb a significant amount of the crash energy. Think of it as a big brick that's more "in the way" than it is helping things. The I6/V6 generalization is that things that have to be "in the way" will be less "in the way" if they're a smaller package, and that this makes more room available for crash energy absorbing structures. The theoretical ideal is 0% engine and 100% crash structure, but in reality, that's not going to happen.
... there is a difference between crash test results in a artificially controlled setting (e.g., NHTSA and IIHS labs) and actual real world results ....
Yup. And unfortunately, the uncontrolled setting of 'field reports' makes statistical analysis quite hard; and downright impossible if it involves a self-selected sample. Ditto for the statistics on crash test sampling, although that's a topic ripe for test plan scope creep.
Would also be interesting to look at the correlation between 6-cyl engine configuration and safety.
My hypothesis: Since 1990 I6s in passenger vehicles ...
All of the US automakers used to have I6's, typically back before they adopted FWD for weight/packaging/cost savings, so if we looked back into this time period, I think we're going to find that MB & BMW were still better, which simply reenforces our position that the single most significant contributor is the manufacturer.
FWIW, keep in mind that in the Euro crash tests, the little MB A-Class got a 4 Star rating, the same as the 3er. Actually, the A was actually better in the front. Oops.
There are a tremendous number of factors that come into play regarding safety.
Which is why this is shouldn't get beaten to death as somehow being definitive. There's a technical basis to say that a V6 may offer a slight advantage for at least one crash mode, but that alone doesn't provide a compulsion to change: after all, look at how poorly GM does, despite having a theoretical leg up.
Aug 06, 2002 (1:32 pm)
...to get rid of tree sap and bird dung off your bimmer? I tried washing it off yesterday and it won't come off at all, just leaves yellow marks all over the hood! I usually just use dishwashing liquid but it's not strong enough to get rid of this stuff!
#19363 of 30250 Safety and Engine Configuration: IIHS I6 vs V6 Results
Aug 06, 2002 (1:50 pm)
huntzinger... Is too bad the NHTSA data is too old to be useful (has data on E36), but the IIHS data is interesting. Their web site lists 6 "Best Picks" for the "Midsize Luxury Cars". MB C320, Volvo S80, Lexus ES300, Lexus IS300, Saab 9-5, and BMW 328i. You have 3 V6 and 3 I6 configurations.
ES300 is transversely mounted FWD V6. Isn't the S80 I6 transversely mounted versus the longitudinally mounted IS300 and 328i I6s? Should an E-W configuration help or hurt versus a N-S configuration?
The MB did quite well. But so did the rest. All received a "G", the highest rating for "structure/safety cage" as well as all "Injury measures" (except one "A" for the 9-5).
The BMW fell down on "restraints/dummy kinematics" and "head restraint design", but neither is related to engine configuration.
The BMW is the oldest design tested of these 6 Best Picks. It is a MY 2000 328i. The C-class was redesigned in 2001. The Volvo S80 discusses differences in 2000 & 2001 designs/equipment versus 1999. The Saab 9-5 is a brand new 2002 design.
Look at the intrusion measurements for each. Not sure what conclusions can be drawn. The I6 328i beats the V6 9-5 and I6 S80 but loses to the V6 C320. Essentially a tie between the I6 328i and V6 ES300. And the I6 IS300 beats the I6 328i.
#19364 of 30250 A/C control module not working on '96 - '99 3 series.
Aug 06, 2002 (2:14 pm)
My climate control does whatever it wants, when it wants. Sometimes when the car is cold, the system will be fully functional with indicator lights working and will respond to any command in any mode. After a minute or less, the lights on the heater control panel will go out, then after that, the heater / A/C will not function on the chosen setting. Instead, it does whatever it wants. Generally it directs heat directly onto the driver’s right foot only, regardless of any setting. I consider this to be a safety issue when the temperature is in the 90's and heat is pouring into the cabin. Also, there are NO replacement parts available currently, and the dealers worldwide don't know when they'll be available.
Anyone else have a similar problem?
Anyone know where I could find this digital push button part?