Last post on Jul 17, 2012 at 5:08 PM
You are in the Saab 9-5
What is this discussion about?
Saab 9-5, Sedan
#2015 of 2237 ok have it your way
Dec 15, 2005 (9:35 am)
well, it appears that only you and i are on this board for now.
when the car ,9.5 first came out ,this board ,i was told ,was the busiest in edmunds.just . go back and look at the number of posts vs. now.
look at it now.
and if you do not know why ,just look at why the only way you can move these cars out is due to highly subsidized leases.( this has been going on for some time now )
de contented cars------------the 9.5 has been decontented.it is a fact.you can argue all you want. but in my opinion it has been decontented here and there .
and yes you now get better headlights. but are they really ?
the leather is an inferior quality grain from before. not subjective.this is my observation.
the prices are the same as the year 2000 because gm has decided to back out of artificial pricing or should we say away from inflating or creating an artificially high msrp ,to be able to give discounts and make the end price look like a good deal ,and now they have decided to go into a lower msrp by taking away the cosmetics.
you are obviously a dealer and as such you have to stand up for your product. which is fine.
but ,customers are slowly beginning to see the light ,not only with saab ,but also other brands.
and , i do like the way the car looks now . and you may get some new buyers. but repeat sales ?????/i do not know.
i think that the car no longer delivers on the saab brand promise.
it has lost ground to competition and failed to remain as it was originally positioned.
and worse ,its reliability is in the pits right down there with yugo and vw..
just read consumer reports.
and when this happens ,repeat sales are lost . and repeat sales has been saab strenght over the years.
now, it has become another gm brand or should i call it casualty to be in the gm stable.
#2016 of 2237 My Toyota Sucked vs my two 9-5's
Dec 17, 2005 (7:46 pm)
I had a 99 9-5 six banger, only one visit to the shop for the three year lease for repair. 2002 Aero Wagon, in the shop three times, about once a year, little stuff. 2004 Toyota Avalon XLS, fully loaded, sticker over 35K, constant problems, electrical, fit and finish, plastic cracking, wires cut to short under seats, (nearly more repairs than my 92 9000 Griffen Edition which has delayed my retirement by 5 years, but the Griffen still holds the title). I knew the service manager so well at Saab, he now comes over for dinner at Thanksgiving and Christmas). 99 Chevy Suburban, only in shop twice in six years. 2002 Honda S2000, never one time in the shop once (only 13K though). I guess its all relative, i.e. how you care for your car, how many miles, what conditions, how you drive, etc., I surely would not put a Saab over a Honda or any Jap model for that fact, nor any german model, nor do I think the above poster has any reference on a 9-5 being the most "reliable" car in ownership (initial satisfaction, JD Powers, but not trouble free ownership), but its been my dealt hand, that I bought. But damn, Saabs are fun to drive, and I just love the smart engineering, ergonomics, safety, Onstar, Tune-box, WeatherBand, Great, Great Seats, Seat Warmers that cook your ass and a 4 cylinder that will smoke the tires, so the hell with the ratings game. Too bad they don't teach most the salesman about the car though, they are so poorly informed and the consumer looses out, for few ever read the manuals to know some of the neat features, attributes, reasons for particulars of manufacturing, etc., of these cars. PS, In my book (which is at the 2nd grade reading level) the 9-2 and 9-7 or only about 15% Saab. Shame on GM for doing this to Saab. Jack up a 9-5 Wagon and add all wheel drive. Monster Garage would crank it out in a weekend. It worked for Audi/BMW/Volvo.
#2017 of 2237 Re: ok have it your way [ffb13]
Dec 17, 2005 (8:00 pm)
You must get a different Consumer Reports, the 9-5 has been a recommeded vehicle both new and used for years.
Also, read some car rags, the new 9-5 is on the way. If you are familiar with Saab, they keep a model style for about 10 years, then again, so does Volvo, BMW, MB, and Audi. I am on my 4th Saab since my 86 SPG, so I am a repeat offender. Leather, better than Acura, Lexus to name a few, very durable and strong, not soft and thin. Leases? must of these cars in this segment our company car leased cars, if not, they are still written off (your discount) that way just as the rush for SUV's were for this year. I am not a dealer, and I am not standing up for Saab, GM or knocking any other brand, but if you do your homework, buy new, lease, buy certified and have a warranty, I don't believe your experience would not be pleasurable. Tell me another car that gets the gas mileage of a Saab, the interior room, standard features, and can hit zero to 60 under 7 seconds? Non of the luxo brands in the Saab price range (street price, not MSRP).
#2018 of 2237 that is why i have a 9.5
Dec 18, 2005 (5:45 pm)
do not misread my posts please.
i do love my saab with 100k miles.
i do get 32 mpg at 85 and 90 mph (no a/c)on long trips 1500 miles .and if i behave ,at 55 to 60 mph on i95 i do get 42 to 46 mph.(take 2 to 3 mpg off with a/c ).
hard to believe but true.
and i do change my oil and tranny fluid myself every 3k miles.
now with a viggen exhaust and other mods to the cat i have lost some torque .but have gained a smoother running car at over 125 mph.
do carry a spare dic in my trunk.
regarding consumer reports, when new this car was highly rated. now ,it is black rated mostly due to the oil sludge problems that are destroying the engines.
that is why i now have an 8 year unlimited mileage warranty on the engine.(courtesy of the gvt. of course).
my problem with the 06 , i have posted , is that it has been left behind by competition and the other stuff i mentioned.
today i took a spirited backroads ride in conn. no it is not as much fun as a 911 or nsx ,but it does seat 4 .
#2019 of 2237 Re: Wrong again... [saablcp]
Dec 20, 2005 (2:43 pm)
Well, it has to be better than the "stereo" in my 9-3 Linear, which is absolutely atrocious. Between what is an intentionally bad system - somebody approved it for production that way - and the other quality fiascos, I'm done with SAAB. When the lease is up in a couple of months, ADIOS!
This after a 2000 9-5 and a 2002 9-5 (my wife's). Both were great cars.
The 2006 9-5 is essentially a holdover that was designed before GM took full control of SAAB, so may be OK (if you can get past the headlight treatment that makes it look like it's wearing goggles).
But the 9-3 demonstrates that now that GM is in control, the content and quality is being ratcheted down to GM levels. NO THANKS.
Accorging to the car magazines, it appears that future SAAB's will essentially be re-badged Opels (in the same vein that the 9-7 is a re-badged TrailBlazer).
NO THANKS. I want a quality vehicle, not a GM vehicle!
#2020 of 2237 Re: Wrong again... [saablcp]
Dec 21, 2005 (6:59 am)
It would be nice if this bulletin board were restricted to customers only. Saablcp has stated that he is a Saab dealer, and therefore obviously is biased towards Saabs.
The leather is a subjective issue, but you cannot twist the facts that Saab 9-5's have had two major engine problems : ignition cassette failures and oil sludge, which federal govt forced Saab to admit these defects.
This has directly led to Consumer Reports downgrading
their reliability recommendations.
Combined with this is the poor customer service at many
dealers in the Boston area (Reading MA, Andover MA,etc),
and I have registered a complaint with the local BBB
about the Andover shop. My Toyota and Acura dealers have
been great in contrast.....I believe I am neutral since
I dont sell cars : I am an internist who simply wants
#2021 of 2237 Dealer/non-dealer non issue
Dec 22, 2005 (8:37 am)
All of my posts regarding the 9-5 have been reasonably free of pro Saab bias.I try and stick to the facts and dispute and challenge that which I consider to be opinions stated as fact and factual misrepresentations .You have stated that Saab has de-contented the car....I challenged you to make a list to counter my list of additions to the model.Your response....no response.The Consumer reports recomendaton of the car is a matter of record.Your opinion regarding the Leather is totally subjective and my response was only to point that fact out.You also misfired on the audio system which was and still is done by Harmon Kardon.
#2022 of 2237 Re: Wrong again... [wthm]
Dec 22, 2005 (8:39 am)
We have a lot of very helpful salespeople hanging out in the Forums. They are a valuable part of our community. And for the record, I've seen several salespeople state that they like and/or drive cars other than what they are selling. I don't think you can just automatically assume bias.
Dec 22, 2005 (9:17 am)
Wow, did not realize so many bad vibes on the 9.5. I have a certified 2001 V-6 (been off warrenty for 1 year now) and it has been a great experience, esp. compared to my prior Audi's. At 74K two repairs off warrenty were a front R wheel bearing and new battery. It is a great winter car (Maine) and the dealership is great with nice Saab loaners. I get 29 mpg highway and 19 around Portland, mainly stop and go crap. Love the stereo, the automatic heater function when car parked (keeps dogs warm up to hour at 25F in winter, tons of room with seat down, and car has been dead reliable. Anyway, sorry to hear of all the problems as I have been recommending 9.5's to all my friends. I am planning to get Certified 2001-2002 V-6 Wagon next year as those have the vented seats and the weather band radio (which is use all the time during sailing season) and they are cheap. Finally, did get a recall on the Cassette but installation not until March.
#2024 of 2237 Salesman's insight...
Dec 23, 2005 (8:32 am)
Here's a generalization based on 21yrs.sales experience:The two groups of people who make internet posts regarding their cars are those who LOVE their cars and those who HATE their cars.The vast majority of owners who fall in between are largely unheard from.They vote with their dollars, expressed as brand loyalty.For the most part Saab owners are intensely loyal.Those who post negative experiences outnumber the positive posters by a huge majority .That is largely attributable to basic human nature.Ever listen to sports talk radio the Monday after your football team loses vs the day after a win?Which scenario generates more callers and more passion?The other result of our extreme dependence on our cars in this society is the opinion we form when our ONE car lets us down,inconveniences us and disrupts our day to day routine....not MY car (singular) is a lemon,no....these CARS(plural,as in every one ever built!!)are lemons!Just one man's view from the trenches!