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Sedans Cadillac DeVille Cadillac DeVille
2477 messages, Last post on Sep 23, 2008 at 8:05 PM
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Replying to: chetj (Jun 17, 2007 10:11 am) Fear of head gasket problems is exactly why I do not own a Cadillac. My wife loves them, I am terrified of a $3,000 head gasket repair on a car worth only $10,000 or so. The problem is with the alumium engine and heads. Alumium is a soft metal. The heads basically will not stay screwed down to the engine, which allows a leak of compression gas (the gas produced when the gasoline explodes in the cylinder) into the cooling passages, which are in the engine and head. The gasket seals and separates the cylinder, coolant passages, and oil passages where the head bolts down to the engine. Northstars fail with the gasses blowing into the coolant passage. The oil passages seldom opens up. Northstars do not get oil into the coolant or coolant into the oil - you get hot gasses into the coolant and very quick and very high over-heating of the coolant. If you test drive a Cadillac, you must get it out on the highway or drive it up a steep hill, to 'load' the motor. If it overheats - run away, run away, run away!!! Repair involves removing the motor, removing the heads (do both, only and idiot would only repair one head), overdrilling all the head bolt holes, retreading the head bolt holes, screwing in a special steel insert with threads, then putting the whole thing back together and back in the car. The steel inserts will hold the head bolts screwed into them and will not fail again. Why Cadillac will not go ahead and build the engine with these steel inserts - No one knows. Doing this repair is not something even some dealers will do. It will cost about $2,500 - $3,000, with most of the cost being labor. Except for the head gasket problem, Northstars engines are about bulletproof. There are some transmission internal solonid problems (which can be rather cheap or very expensive to repair, depending on which ones break), otherwise the transmissions are bulletproof. There is a known problem with crank position sensors in 2000 and 2001 years (sometimes, in other years). Crank sensors will cause a car to totally die while just going down the road - scary. There have been expensive problems with the steering gear. The suspension struts, sway bar links, and the rear 'air' suspension are another area that will give problems. Some Northstars use oil. Which causes absolutely no problem with the motor, and oil (compaired to the gas you put thru it), is cheap. Some Northstars leak oil, which is also very expensive to fix. Put a piece of cardboard under the car in the garage and forget about the leak. The car has a huge amount of electronics all over the car that can give trouble. A Cadillac is a very comfortable, very quiet, very powerful, very nice looking, car. The 'sport' versions will handle rather well. The 'sedan' versions ride like a cloud, and handle rather badly. The Northstar will give excellent gas milage on the highway, you should be able to get 25+mpg. But, expect repairs. And, in my opinion, having the car 'religously serviced by a dealer' will not make much difference, except move money from your pocket to a dealers. If you keep oil in the Northstar, and change it ocassionally, it's going to keep running. Until one of the above areas break.
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Replying to: chetj (Jun 17, 2007 10:11 am) I just looked up the lawsuits that Chetj talked about with Dexcool. It's not just the cadillac but many other GM makes using Dexcool!!!! 35 million cars affected !!! Lawyers trying for class action suit. Meanwhile, what to use instead of Dexcool ?????? This guy, former owner of the car, (I have all the repair papers) had a piston,rod and rings replaced/blown at 17,000 miles...and "hose,engine coolant, lower replace" at 18000 miles(indicating he was another who has had this problem and I also see a mark on the back leather seat which inicates to me that the battery replacement was not "aired" properly and leaked into the back seat, just as they say it would.....!!! Now I dont know what kind of coolant they have in there and if they ever flushed the radiator before I have this gaskeet problem too !!!!! Anyone want to tell me what I should do and expecially what coolant to use???? Sounds to me like it would be cheaper to take it to local Firestone, have them flush the radiator and replace with another coolant...but which one? what do you think? |
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From what I have been reading from bolivar and chetj and I am starting to secong guess myself on getting this Deville... Naaa, no way I am still going to take the chance. I love them so much and I had such good luck with my 98 Deville I dont think I will ever own any other car but a Deville. I guess you just have to watch yourself when choosing a Cadillac. Make sure its certified from a reputable dealer if its used, also do what bolivar says while you test drive the car and really open it up on the highway and get it good and hot while you watch the temperature gauge. And with a little luck, and a warranty, off you go with the most comfortable car that I have ever known. I also really like the whole digital dashboard on the Deville. That is one of my favorite things about these cars. I cant stand the and the digital speedometer on the dashboard. I really like the wood trim on the sreering wheels on the DTS and DHS but then they have to ruin it for me with the dial speedometer. But anyway hopefully by this time Wednesday night I will either have my new used 2002 Deville or my new used 2003 Deville. woohoo! |
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Replying to: ladymylady (Jun 17, 2007 8:00 am)
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Replying to: zimzam1 (Jun 17, 2007 5:06 pm) try them for both - maybe they have the caddy at a reasonable price you're looking for - they do say discount - and that they discount the warrantee.. read their whole site. Meanwhile Bolivar is right about it's being a problem with plastic and aluminum radiator with little copper, and the GM coolant turning to sludge. Look what I found on the Consumer Affairs complaints: "M L of San Rafael CA (08/26/06) *WE'VE FIXED THE PROBLEM(S)!! And while it's irritating to look back and see how much $$ I've needlessly thrown at my '92 K1500 Chevy Blazer, several radiators, head gasket, heater core, trans cooler lines, uptake gaskets, pretty much everything that has come into contact with cooling fluids has either corroded or slowly disintigrated. All due to what turns out to be a basic electrical design flaw at GM. radiator guy hates Dexcool, suspects that perhaps it's the electrolisis that causes the Dexcool to turn to a jelly goop. Says the higher the amp reading in the radiator, the more goopy Dexcool seems to be. My story: The original radiator in my '92 Chevy lasted a good while (hint: older radiators had A LOT more copper in them). The trouble really all started and in a big way, after replacing the original radiator. I did pay the $500.00 for the new GM radiator. (hint: the newer made radiators have little to no copper in them. They are mostly aluminum and steel) Within a couple months, I started having to dump money into my K1500 Blazer, LOTS of it! When radiator #3 started leaking, I got fed up with my mechanic, who kept saying, it's a high milage vehicle. I should expect this. Not thinking it was even slightly odd that everything seemed to be connected to the cooling system or somehow come into contact with it, even though nearly every repair seemed to require draining the radiator?? So, I looked for the oldest, greasiest, busiest, radiator shop in my area. First thing the guy did, after hearing the list of repairs I'd made, was to drop a probe in the radiator to check for a charge, in other words, electrolysis. An acceptable reading is .03 amps. I was running at .38 amps!! Turning the engine off it would only drop it to .27 amps. So, he replaced leaking radiator #3, and rechecked it,.. .58 amps!! It went up! He shrugged and said, new one must have even less copper than the last one. I've seen a lot of these GM's with this crap going on. I've been doing this thing that seems to fix this problem. Then an off-duty local cop pulled in with his Blazer, newer than mine. We got to talking, he'd had most of the same problems and this radiator guy fixed it for him 3 years ago, and hadn't had a problem since. Here's what my guy did... #1 - Attached three, braided ground cables, randomly to the radiator and the block, and grounded them. #2 - Then took a piece of copper pipeing aprox 3 long, with the same hollow as the heater-core hose, soddered a copper ground wire to the side of it. Midpoint on the hose running from the radiator to the heatercore, he spliced this small copper pipe into the line using hose clamps. Then using the ground wire he had soddered to it, grounded it to the engine block. #3 - Drained and refilled the cooling system with DISTILLED water and GREEN coolant. Dexcool in his experance is CRAP, and I quote him. He did all this very quickly, then dropped the probe into the radiator and poof .02 amps! It cost me $100. He has me come in to recheck the amps once a month. And still 6 months later, .02 amps, and no new problems. I was averaging 1 problem per month, a leak here, a suspicious gasket there. Now nothing. So, it seems to me that there are really two problems. One affecting the other. A cooling system grounding problem, electrolysis resulting in corrosion and dissintigration of parts and gaskets. And then Dexcool which is unstable in an electrically charged enviroment and turns to goop. Maybe I'm wrong but my '92 K1500 Blazer now has 212K miles on the original engine" |
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Replying to: bolivar (Jun 17, 2007 11:46 am) Look what I found among all the consumer complaints about the GM cars using Dexcool: "M L of San Rafael CA (08/26/06) *WE'VE FIXED THE PROBLEM(S)!! And while it's irritating to look back and see how much $$ I've needlessly thrown at my '92 K1500 Chevy Blazer, several radiators, head gasket, heater core, trans cooler lines, uptake gaskets, pretty much everything that has come into contact with cooling fluids has either corroded or slowly disintigrated. All due to what turns out to be a basic electrical design flaw at GM. radiator guy hates Dexcool, suspects that perhaps it's the electrolisis that causes the Dexcool to turn to a jelly goop. Says the higher the amp reading in the radiator, the more goopy Dexcool seems to be. My story: The original radiator in my '92 Chevy lasted a good while (hint: older radiators had A LOT more copper in them). The trouble really all started and in a big way, after replacing the original radiator. I did pay the $500.00 for the new GM radiator. (hint: the newer made radiators have little to no copper in them. They are mostly aluminum and steel) Within a couple months, I started having to dump money into my K1500 Blazer, LOTS of it! When radiator #3 started leaking, I got fed up with my mechanic, who kept saying, it's a high milage vehicle. I should expect this. Not thinking it was even slightly odd that everything seemed to be connected to the cooling system or somehow come into contact with it, even though nearly every repair seemed to require draining the radiator?? So, I looked for the oldest, greasiest, busiest, radiator shop in my area. First thing the guy did, after hearing the list of repairs I'd made, was to drop a probe in the radiator to check for a charge, in other words, electrolysis. An acceptable reading is .03 amps. I was running at .38 amps!! Turning the engine off it would only drop it to .27 amps. So, he replaced leaking radiator #3, and rechecked it,.. .58 amps!! It went up! He shrugged and said, new one must have even less copper than the last one. I've seen a lot of these GM's with this crap going on. I've been doing this thing that seems to fix this problem. Then an off-duty local cop pulled in with his Blazer, newer than mine. We got to talking, he'd had most of the same problems and this radiator guy fixed it for him 3 years ago, and hadn't had a problem since. Here's what my guy did... #1 - Attached three, braided ground cables, randomly to the radiator and the block, and grounded them. #2 - Then took a piece of copper pipeing aprox 3 long, with the same hollow as the heater-core hose, soddered a copper ground wire to the side of it. Midpoint on the hose running from the radiator to the heatercore, he spliced this small copper pipe into the line using hose clamps. Then using the ground wire he had soddered to it, grounded it to the engine block. #3 - Drained and refilled the cooling system with DISTILLED water and GREEN coolant. Dexcool in his experance is CRAP, and I quote him. He did all this very quickly, then dropped the probe into the radiator and poof .02 amps! It cost me $100. He has me come in to recheck the amps once a month. And still 6 months later, .02 amps, and no new problems. I was averaging 1 problem per month, a leak here, a suspicious gasket there. Now nothing. So, it seems to me that there are really two problems. One affecting the other. A cooling system grounding problem, electrolysis resulting in corrosion and dissintigration of parts and gaskets. And then Dexcool which is unstable in an electrically charged enviroment and turns to goop. Maybe I'm wrong but my '92 K1500 Blazer now has 212K miles on the original engine" |
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Talking about problems with a 1992 auto? 15 years old? I didn't even read all that, and I'm sure not going to discuss it. Dexcool does not have a problem. Modern cooling systems are semi-closed systems and are supposed to have no air in them. Under these conditions Dexcool works fine. I say semi-closed because when coolant gets hot it expands into the expansion collector, and when it cool off, coolant is pulled back into the system. If the system leaks and is allowed to run low on coolant and get air into the system, then Dexcool has had some problems in some vehicles. It's my understanding the problem comes from Dexcool interacting with cast iron and air, and then does sludge up. If the system is maintained, with full charge of Dexcool and no air in the system, there are no problems. Personally, I will not run my vehicles 7 years and/or 100,000 miles, or whatever the maintenance calls for, before changing my coolant. I would think 4 years and/or 50,000 would be a good time to drain the old coolant and refill with new. Serviced like this, and checking the system for leaks and is topped up - you should have no problems. After 5-7 years, you might develop leaks in the radiator and need a new one. Things wear out.
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Replying to: bolivar (Jun 18, 2007 3:27 am) GM started using "Deathcool" in 1996 !!!!! From found article: Dexcool is a formulated antifreeze/coolant used in over thirty-four million vehicles sold by General Motors. Used by GM since 1996 in most car and light truck models, Dexcool is manufactured and distributed by ChevronTexaco, Equilon and ChevronTexaco Global Lubricants. More info: http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/dexcool-macs2001.htm |
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Very interesting post on the sludge corrosion problems caused by Dexcool. Bolivar, I only re-printed that fellow's solution for users of dexcool. It doesnt matter whether people are using it in a 1992 car or a 2006 car. They are all ending up with leaking coolant, needing new gaskets, water pumps, and in many cases new engines as the coolant "corrodes" whatever it touches as it runs through the engine. Not only are 28 "states suing GM for dexcool, but GM itself sued Dupont for dexcool. Missouri got class action status - other states have not. That says there is something seriously wrong with dexcool speaking from a legal point of view, because lawyers dont go before federal judges without the facts and a very good provable case for class actions. My car already had the problem at 17000 miles with piston and rings blown and replaced as well as hoses. other cars have had it at 15,000 miles. That is not normal. If you go over and read consumer complaints you will see again and again, technicians saying that have piled up corroded head gaskets - that dexcool eats them up ---- since I'm over the 5 year warranty - I want that CRAP out of my car and to check how much damage has been done already. I'd rather be safe than have to put in a new engine. This car has already had 35 visits and many replacements at the dealer before 35,000 miles !!! And I dont think that's normal. the reports of people who took out the dexcool and went to regular green antifreeze after a good flushing - and thereafter had no problems is also very telling...and there are many of those. Alhough I certainly respect your knowledge, The facts on dexcool are not agreeing with you, except to say that there is a problem with dexcool eating up the plastic parts and hoses in a car with an aluminum radiator.
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I've had an MG, a Thunderbird, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and a cadillac previously and in all of those cars, even though a woman, I have always checked the dipstick/oil and refilled/topped off antifreeze myself with regular, usually Prestone (green)antifreeze. I've been driving since I was 18. I have never never ever seen anything like what was shown on those caps or in the overflow from dexcool !.
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