- #1923 of 2477
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Re: Regarding the Hemi design [blkhemi]
by bremertong
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Sep 24, 2005 (8:38 pm)
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Replying to: blkhemi (Sep 24, 2005 1:34 pm)
Am finding your posts on Northstar vs Hemi helpful and informative. I currently own a 2004 Deville but have owned Chryslers in the past, most recently a 1997 LHS,
with the V6, 214 HWP. I wouldn't mind owning a 300 C for a second car but at least for now Cadillac is number one with me. Am also considering a 1998 or 1999
Concours for a second car. I liked the body style for cars of those model years.
The Northstar is of the previous generation but having owned a 98 Deville in the past haven't found enough difference to let the first generation issue be a major factor.
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- #1924 of 2477
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Re: Regarding the Hemi design [sls002]
by blkhemi
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Sep 24, 2005 (10:33 pm)
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 24, 2005 4:36 pm)
Can't understand why you think the Hemi is all new. Just off the phone with a close friend of mine who is also a DC engineer and he did indeed tell me that DC did use some of the design of the original Hemi, hence, NOT A NEW DESIGN. As for the Northstar being based on 4.1 and 4.5, impossible. This car has the DOHC setup, 32 valves that either of those previous designs would not even have the technology to spin off a sophisticated engine like the Northstar. Both the 4.1 and 4.5 have 16 valve cyl. heads. Sure it may have the same stroke, but numerous cars with like size engines share this same coincedence. "The Corvette engine is new"-- Think again buddy. It's the same architecture as the small block Chevy V8 of 1957. The Corvette ZO6 7.0L V8 is all new from top to bottom. The 3800 still uses the same crank from 30 years ago. Maybe that's why it lasted this long. All of these engines including the Hemi are great engines in our war against the foreign makes,
P.S. As for OHC designs existing before GM did the Northstar, It was Lee Ioccoca that started development of hi-po ohc motors during his days at GM.
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- #1925 of 2477
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Re: Regarding the Hemi design [bremertong]
by blkhemi
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Sep 24, 2005 (10:36 pm)
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Replying to: bremertong (Sep 24, 2005 8:38 pm)
Still got my '97 DeVille D'Elegance and it runs great. Of course with this generation it is premium fuel only. That's the only major quarrel that I have.
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- #1926 of 2477
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Re: Deville Octane [sls002]
by roady1
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Sep 25, 2005 (3:47 am)
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 24, 2005 12:15 pm)
Thanks for the info. I thought it wouldn't be a big difference. No sense paying for premium when you don't need it. I had a 95 Buick Roadmaster before the Caddy. The owner's manual recommended 87. They were right. I tried other grades and it didn't change anything. The engine in the Roadmaster was a detuned version of the Vette LT1 - 260 HP. This was a great engine. Strong power from take off to whatever. Very smooth and quiet. The NorthStar is better on gas and 275HP.
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- #1927 of 2477
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Re: While I am not in a [marsha7]
by roady1
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Sep 25, 2005 (4:01 am)
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Replying to: marsha7 (Sep 24, 2005 4:55 pm)
I have a new 05 Deville, base model . I have the midnight blue leather and like the looks of it. Not sure how good it is. It's plain looking in some ways. Time will tell. It's only 3 months old. Will make more comments about interior as it gets older. The dark interior does show more dust. That's a reminder to wipe it off once and awhile. The base model has 275HP. My overall gas mileage on a recent 1200 mile trip was 25.4. That included some city, rural, and 98% highway. This was actual mileage from gal. used at the pump. At times on the highway, the computer was between 27 & 28.This engine is rated at 18 city and 26 Highway. I think the DTS engine is rated at 17 and 25.
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- #1928 of 2477
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Re: While I am not in a [roady1]
by blkhemi
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Sep 25, 2005 (10:12 am)
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Replying to: roady1 (Sep 25, 2005 4:01 am)
The DTS is 17/24 city highway. I get about 23 in city/highwy mix.
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- #1929 of 2477
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Re: Regarding the Hemi design [blkhemi]
by sls002
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Sep 25, 2005 (10:47 am)
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Replying to: blkhemi (Sep 24, 2005 10:33 pm)
Sorry, but the old Corvette engine was cast iron. The new Corvette engine is all aluminum, the change was done in the not too distant past. I thought that I made it clear that the northstar was not precisely the old 4100. However, putting a different head is not a big problem, the Citations 2.8 liter V6 was upsized to 3.4 liters and a DOHC head was installed. The 3800 started out with a standard V8 crankshaft cut off at 6 cylinders. The even firing crankshaft was designed in the late 70's. You have very strange ideas about what makes an engine new or old. I very much doubt that Chrysler is using the old 50's hemi head tooling to build the new engine.
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- #1930 of 2477
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engine's
by sls002
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Sep 25, 2005 (11:48 am)
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Hemi head - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine
Scroll down to modern hemi - you will see that this engine really is not a hemi at all, thus what I said above is true, an all new design.
chevy small block gen II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine
genIII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine
Both the gen II and III are all new designs as I read it.
Cadillac's northstar was also re-engineered for the 2000 model year, making the pre-2000 engine different than the post-2000 engine. The RWD VVT northstar is also a new engine, a different design than the FWD version, with a different cooling system.
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- #1931 of 2477
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Re: Regarding the Hemi design [sls002]
by blkhemi
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Sep 25, 2005 (1:55 pm)
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 25, 2005 10:47 am)
You are the one with the distorted views about what makes an engine "old or new". Because the Chevy's engine is aluminum does not mean it doesn't share architecture with iron ones from the distant pass. The main reason GM did this in it's cars and light trucks and SUV's was to reduce weight and improve durability. Oh and hate to tell you that the 3.4L GM motor was not an adaptation of the 2.8L V6, but rather an offspring of the 3.1L. I know that there was a 3.4L DOHC that served in some Olds. Cutlass',Chevy Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix, just not the ones served in the Pontiac Grand Am, and all of GM's minivan's and minivan based SUV's (ie: Buick Rendevous and Pontiac Aztek). Neither were based on that antiquated 2.8L motor. True enough the 3800 motor is a 6-cyl. version of the 307 V8. So is the 4300 V6 which is a 350 with two cyl. taken off. And as I said in my previous post, Chrysler used some of the ideas of the original Hemi, not actual PARTS. And for the last time, the Northstar is a "from scratch design"--meaning ALL NEW. Do you actually think that back in '92 when GM was marketing the STS with the Northstar that they would lie about the Northstar engine being a "from scratch design"? I think NOT. Also as I've said that using old-school methods is not a bad thing at all. Maybe this time you won't chop my words up for your on personal benefit.
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- #1932 of 2477
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Re: While I am not in a [marsha7]
by bolivar
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Sep 25, 2005 (2:43 pm)
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Replying to: marsha7 (Sep 24, 2005 4:55 pm)
Buy a used one. From a Cadillac dealer. Get it 'certified', which will warranty it for 7 years to 100,000 miles (I think this is what it it now).
My 97 Deville will easily get 25mpg on the highway. I've seen as high as 28.5 and 27.5mpg - 70 or 75mph.
Aren't you an attorney? Since when does an attorney not be 'in a financial position' to buy a new car? Is the economy that bad?
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