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Pontiac Bonneville, Sedan
#4066 of 4400 Re: GXP Vibration [ravenfive #4063]
Jul 02, 2004 (2:22 pm)
There is a TSB out. Don't know whether it applies to your car or not. I have an '04 SLE and it has the same problem with 17" RSAs and my wife's '00 Ultra has the same problem with Pirellis. Seems to be an inherent feature of the GM full sized 4 door. Here is the TSB.
Bob in Glendale
Document ID# 1455223
2000 Buick LeSabre
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on
Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels) #00-03-10-007F - (02/05/2004)
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on
Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels)
1998-2004 Buick Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra
2000-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-2004 Cadillac Seville (SLS, STS)
2000-2004 Cadillac DeVille (DTS only)
2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora
2000-2004 Pontiac Bonneville (17" Tires only)
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2004 model year and delete the
screened tire program information for all tire manufacturers except for
Continental General. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number
00-03-10-007E (Section 03 - Suspension).
Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel,
floor or seat while driving at highway speeds (typically between 60-72
mph (96-115 km/h)) on smooth roads.
These specific vehicles may be sensitive to various rotating mass
assemblies, especially if they are considered to be out-of-balance.
1. Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence
of the following conditions and correct as necessary.
* Missing balance weights
* Bent rim flange
* Irregular tire wear
* Incomplete bead seating
* Tire irregularities
* Mud/ice build-up in wheel
* Stones in the tire tread
2. Set the tire pressure to 30 psi (205 kPa) COLD.
3. Road test the vehicle with the Electronic Vibration Analyzer
(EVA) essential tool for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road
surface to duplicate the condition. Record the Hertz (Hz) reading as
displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of
this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at
least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to
eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting.
4. If the road test indicates a shake/vibration still exists, check
the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated,
off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on
either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close
to zero as possible.
Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer.
This will simplify Step 5 by not requiring dial indicators. If a Hunter
GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial
force of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs or less.
5. While on the balancer, measure wheel runout. If radial or lateral
runout exceeds .020 in (0.50 mm) for aluminum wheels (.030 in (0.76 mm)
for steel wheels), replace the wheel.
6. After confirming wheel balance and wheel runout, if any changes
were made, road test the vehicle again.
7. If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists:
The completed worksheet must be attached to the hard copy
of the repair order.
Record Radial Force Variation readings if you have access
to Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Balance equipment. Use the worksheet found at
the end of this bulletin to record the readings.
* If one or more of the tires have RFV readings in excess of
18 lbs, match mount the tires to get below 18 lbs. Readings of 12 lbs.
or less are preferable for critical customer concerns.
* If the RFV can not be reduced to an acceptable level,
replace the affected tire with one obtained locally.
* The screened tire program is no longer in effect for
Bridgestone/Firestone, Goodyear and Michelin. Low speed screened tires
are available from Continental General only, and only for the Buick LeSabre.
* Road test the vehicle to ensure the shake/vibration has
8. Replace both lower control arms on vehicles built prior to the
following VIN breakpoints. On Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue,
Park Avenue Ultra and Seville models, a newly developed hydro-bushing
lower control arm with improved damping characteristics has been
released. This control arm is not used on the LeSabre. The new lower
control arms may provide an incremental improvement to the vehicle ride.
Customers who have become "tuned in" to the shake condition may still
feel some shake in the vehicle after the new lower control arms are
installed. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement in SI (refer to the
Parts Information table below for SI document ID numbers).
THE CONTROL ARMS SHOULD ONLY BE INSTALLED ON VEHICLES IF, AFTER
THE TIRE AND WHEEL DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIRS HAVE BEEN PERFORMED, THE
VIBRATION CONDITION STILL EXISTS.
Seville (SLS, STS)
DeVille (DTS only)
Lower Control Arm, Left (Aurora, Bonneville, DeVille, Park Avenue, Park
Avenue Ultra, Seville)
Aurora -- 639351
Bonneville -- 657809
DeVille w/FE1, FE3 -- 724856
DeVille w/FE7 -- 724858
Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra -- 657760
Seville -- 539332
Jul 02, 2004 (5:03 pm)
The tire pressures being set down to 30 did make a reduction in the uneveness I felt. The higher tire pressure I usually ran (33-34) probably accented the sidewall stiffer areas as the tires rolled.
dessertrat: Are the hydrobushed control arms already on the other vehicles but not on the LeSabre as OEM? Why not? Exactly what are those -- how are they different?
#4068 of 4400 Re: Tire pressure [imidazol97 #4067]
Jul 03, 2004 (8:16 am)
Don't know what the history is on the hydrobushed control arms. I find it rather disconcerting that this vibration problem seems to have some frequency with several GM full sized cars and they apparently haven't solved it. I will try Michelin tires next time around. I have had good luck with them in the past and they do seem to be "more round" and have fewer balance issues.
Jul 03, 2004 (12:39 pm)
I was bouncing through some other discussion groups for something the other day and found a discussion mentioned another vehicle that had had vibration transfer problems from a few years ago and the troubleshooting methods had been required by the company much like with the GM cars.
I infer that the tire companies have not kept up with quality roundness in the rolling of their tires to match the shorter sidewalls of 65 and lower series tires. This is being picked up by lighter unsprung parts under the car (A-arms in my car's case) that are lighter aluminum alloys and thus don't absorb the slight vibrations they used to absorb with their mass. This vibration is then passed into the unibody of the car.
Tire companies have to improve their product. They have been doing minimal quality and selling it because they could get by with that.
#4071 of 4400 Re: GXP review [bigdaddycoats #4069]
Jul 04, 2004 (6:37 am)
The dealers in Phx very seldom advertize the Bonnie. Full page ads with all other vehicles present. About once every couple of months they will offer one for sale. It's almost like a conspiracy to kill the car. Pontiac isn't pushing it so the media isn't either.
Jul 04, 2004 (7:26 am)
I drove the GXP at the autoshow in motion and the exhaust note is just right. I was surprised to hear such a muscle car like exhaust on a luxury car but that alone makes the car better than the 300C. I drove the 300C at a chrysler event three weeks ago and the difference in acceleration isn't noticable to the average driver. The 300 has a more modern interior but there is no way you can tell it has 340hp. They have quieted the engine and exhaust so much that it doesnt even excite you when you floor it. Not the case for the GXP. That thing moved and sounded nice doing it.
#4073 of 4400 Re: GXP Vibration [desertrat5 #4066]
Jul 05, 2004 (9:56 am)
After going through all these steps and still feeling some vibration, I'll try to show this TSB to the dealer this week and see if, with 1000mls short of 36000mls, I can get these newer control arms installed under warranty.
I'm afraid, however, that driving precision will suffer a bit. But it's worth it, IMO. The vibration has been annoying me.
#4074 of 4400 Re: GXP Vibration [evandro #4073]
Jul 05, 2004 (10:43 am)
Good luck. Let me know what happens. My wife's Ultra still has a problem - maybe it will fix that also.
When I purchased my Bonnie, I also tried a LeSabre. Liked it very much but the seats didn't suite my back as well as the Bonnie. Anyway, the salesperson said that they had a significant reduction in tire related issues when Buick started putting Michelins on the higher line LeSabres.
#4075 of 4400 Interior room vs. Impala
Jul 06, 2004 (10:46 am)
Flew up to Boston to visit family over the holiday, and rented a base Bonnie with just 1200 miles. Was surprised that the interior seemed a wee bit smaller than my 01 Impala LS. My wife said shotgun seemed a little smaller as well. Did like the 'feel' and 'grip' of the seat though.
How will interior room of new GXP rate versus a newer Bonnie?