Last post on Nov 05, 2013 at 12:08 PM
You are in the Acura RL
What is this discussion about?
Acura RL, Sedan
#875 of 7386 RL Safety Data
Aug 27, 2002 (4:25 pm)
The RL and other lower volume makes often do not get crash tested. There is a report from The Highway Loss Safety Institute(www.highwaysafety.org) that is entitled "Injury Collision and Theft Losses." This is based on actual loss data as I recall. The latest report says the index for Injury and Collision for a 1998-2000 Honda Civic is 125 for example. This is in a range termed "worse than average". An Accord is rated as 102 exactly the same as a Camry. An Acura RL is rated as 66(Lexus LS 400 is 55) and is in a range termed "substantially better than average." The other data from test has a disclaimer that you are to compare cars from the same weight class only. All this says to me that the RL is a very safe care indeed. I know of no other safety data on the RL maybe someone else does.
Aug 28, 2002 (3:41 am)
I want to thank edmunds for there TMV pricing,I went to two acura dealers and after there offer said edmunds says $36,000 is a true price, one said nothing after trying to steal my trade and the other said, we can sell for less than that. They are now at $34,900 on a new 3.5RL, Boston Acura if your interested. Nice people.
Aug 28, 2002 (9:31 am)
heck, if they just raise the V6 HP to 250 or more, and add a sport suspension option (yes, I do have a hangup on suspensions, as I believe every vehicle should handle corners well regardless of luxury or sport intention), who needs a V8???...it's just that vehicles that handle like they are driven thru molasses should handle better...handling/cornering should not be an option, it should be standard...
Aug 28, 2002 (4:09 pm)
I don't think any this will turn the trick in the current market. Right now there is a V6 280 hp, and though it's in a sports car (350Z) it is a mass market vehicle, not a specialty car. If Honda wants the RL to pick up market share they're going to have to offer something that's perceived as better than competitors, not just adequate for current owners.
They will need to offer hp that is perceived as adequate for a "big" car, just for the marketing, and I think the 300 hp barrier should be in their sites. And it's not unreasonable at 3.8 liter if they apply VVTi and other Honda technology.
They will also need electronic gadgetry. Navigation was good once upon a time. Now -- Maybe voice-activated cupholders, tire pressure monitors that tell you when you have enough air in the tires (as you fill them!), maybe a combination fridge and subwoofer in the center console?
Well, the point is that they have to come up with something that will be perceived as worth $45,999 (prophet2's suggested number) and competitive with Lexus, MB, Infiniti, BMW and so on.
If they bring out a car in the mid-200s in hp, with nothing very special other than "nice" to drive, we'll have another car like Infiniti's M45 -- priced at the 40s but perceived as bland and predicted to be like the current RL ... offering little buyer interest until its price descends pretty far into the $30s.
Just speaking as a customer .....
Aug 29, 2002 (5:28 am)
Like Honda says, putting in a V8 isn't going to spark off sales. The Infiniti Q45 has been selling very slowly (less than 2000 for the last 5-6 months I believe). Thats low compared to the 14,800 RLs that sold last year.
Still though that is much less than the ~39,500 BMW 5-Series and ~49,800 E-Class sedans sold last year.
I think some brands just don't get any recognition. Look at the Audi A8, they sell less than 2500 models a year. The Lexus LS430 only sold about 15,000 models last year. If the RL is a sales flop, so is the LS430.
The next RL has to really stand out in terms of value and features. The new E-Class now has 4-zone climate control. Putting in a V8 with 300 hp would make it no better than a Q45.
Just looking at the competition, there is a lot that needs to go into the RL than just a larger engine.
I see the next RL having a
3.5L DOHC Hybrid V6 at 280-290 hp (can't up the NSX)
(Fuel Economy would be best in class) (based off Acura DualNote)
All Wheel Drive (also based off the Acura DualNote)
Length would be 203 in long (making volume best in class)
All the features found in the MDX and the features found in the Pilot and 03 Accord as standard equipment.
Rear view camera (from the Pilot)
This would include features like Side curtain airbags, XM radio, voice activated nav, and climate controls (from 03 Accord).
A separate climate control for the rear passengers (from the MDX)
I think that would be enough to generate good sales. (My only concerns are long term effects of sitting next to an electric engine and the possible EMF that it generates). That concern alone may be enough for me to purchase a different brand.
Aug 29, 2002 (5:47 am)
You are incorrect on sales of the LS 430. Lexus sold 31,110 in 2001, more than its two closest competitors, the S-Class and 7 Series. Clearly it is no sales flop.
As for the first six months of this year, sales are:
13,049 - LS 430
10,743 - 7 Series
9,988 - S-Class
4,538 - RL
1,908 - Q45
#881 of 7386 RL should stay true to Acura philosophy
Aug 29, 2002 (6:26 am)
I disagree with posters who say RL needs 300+ enhancements including RWD, V8 300+HP engine to be an the map. People who argue this should realize that such a car will be a 50K car and will alienate/price-out many potential buyers while go head-on collision against higher-end Benz, Lexus models. Well, what makes these people think that would be a winning strategy for RL. I think Acura is being very smart in tryinng to get a particualr niche. They offer a value package, done in a cost effective manner with a price tag that is affordable to people who otherwise wouldn't shop for a luxury sedan, but might be tempted to sneak-in into luxury segment thanks to RL's low price. The same goes for FWD. There are some people, who just can not and would not have a RWD vehicle. So, why jump into a field with 10 compteting models, when you can be the single player in town? If RL goes RWD (which I am sure they won't), she'd go off my list automatically.
It is all matter of perception, RL is considered deficient in some areas only as a luxury car. Read all reviews about Toyota Avalon. They are raving saying what a great value this best-kept secret near-Lexus car is. But fully loaded Avalon will cost you 33+K, with arrogant Toyota dealers not badging at all, and it is still falls far below RL in terms of features, handling/ride, power, warranty and dealer service all for 35K these days. So, Avalon is great family sedan and RL is wallflower of luxury cars. Who cares? The way I look at it, show me a car, which offers better value within 35K, and I'll consider it seriously.
Aug 29, 2002 (9:50 am)
Maybe I'm missing something here, but the Avalon and RL are nearly $10,000 apart in price.
$45,650 - RL w/nav
$36,380 - Avalon loaded w/nav
$43,650 - RL
$34,380 - Avalon loaded
With or without nav, you're looking at a difference of $9,270. Now, I know they discount both cars. Say you can get $2,500 off the Avalon. To make them equal, you would need to get $11,770 off the price of the RL. Maybe people get these kinds of discounts, I don't know.
Even the invoice of the base RL is $38,920.
I'm not saying the Avalon is good or bad, but the car is considerably cheaper than an RL. I just don't understand the comparison.
If Acura is discounting the RL $12,000 (or even close to that), they need to reconsider their pricing. Discounts that high devalue the car and brand, as Infiniti has proven. They should just lower the price and give smaller discounts. The market is saying the car is priced too high relative to competitors.
Aug 29, 2002 (9:54 am)
I don't think the LS430 competes against the 7-Series or S-Class. The price and outer dimensions of the LS430 puts it one class below the 745Lis and S500s.
Even the demographics are not similar.
Source: carpoint. I don't claim its accuracy so please don't flame me.
Average age: 52
Average age: 60
The Audi A8 come closer at
Average age: 62
I was curious to see where the RL stood.
Average age: 51
That sound about right. Strange, the income leve for Q45 (49, $100,000) owners is actually less than RL owners.