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Sedans Acura RL Acura RL
7333 messages, Last post on Nov 03, 2009 at 9:42 AM
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Replying to: satire (Aug 10, 2005 2:06 pm) I continue to encourage everyone to seek other opinions as well. ... Sorry my dears, I don't have time for such hypocrisy and self-righteousness. I'm not the one who claimed that CR's automotive engineers also worked in the dishwashing detergent lab. I could care less what anyone's opinion of CR is, but I do care about facts. And anyone who thinks CR evaluates cars by the same folks who evaluates soap IS deluded. Clearly you have an agenda against CR and that is fine, as long as you are honest about it. FWIW: I never claimed that CR was any "god", nor have I recommended folks rush out to buy their recommended cars. I do claim that CR is a credible source of information and whose automotive reviews are just as "worthy" as other sources of information (e.g. Edmunds). |
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Replying to: washdcguy (Aug 11, 2005 1:06 am) Why is CR useful for "household products" when evaluated by "household product" experts, but CR automobile reviews are "laughable" when evaluated by automotive engineers?  Why are household product (e.g. washing machines) frequency of repair records useful, but car frequency of repair records not useful? Are JD Powers reliablity studies useful? Are their checkoff lists more acurate than CR's? How is Car and Driver (or Automobile) Magazine's evaluations any more objective that CR's?? C&D gets free use of "conditioned" vehicles to evaluate, whereas CR goes to the dealership and buys one off the lot. I am not here to defend CR. I am here to research cars (I may buy one soon). I really would like an answer to my question! WHY should I trust Car & Driver (or Automobile, Road & Track, Edmunds, etc) any more than CR? |
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Replying to: acuraphile (Aug 12, 2005 8:53 am) First impressions go a long way, however, and I have been buying luxury cars for over 20 years and know when a salesperson doesn't know what they are talking about. If I really liked the RL after I test drove twice- you are right I probably would have gone to another dealership and hopefully had a better experience. The salespeople werent rude, they just werent very smart about the car's controls and operations (particularly during my 2nd test drive). On my first visit a different salesperson spent the entire time telling me how Acura is so much better than Lexus - which really wasnt helpful or very professional. Maybe my expectation was too high. Not knowing how to demonstate the Nav system is a pretty fundamental flaw in this price range. Lastly the service manager gave all kinds of excuses/caveats when I asked about loaner cars that didn't impress me. At lexus if I pull up and if they dont have a loaner, they take a car off the lot to drive with out question (even when i dont have an appointment such as oil change). By the way, my response is only to the others in the forum that have experienced dealer problems too. I'm not here to Acura bash. |
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Replying to: jhuton (Aug 12, 2005 8:53 am) My Acura dealer hand washes the car at service time and the Starbucks flows but the service is exceptional before and after the sale. The free loaners are brand new TL's...fun cars to drive. 
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| My Audi A6 lease is up soon, and I've decided to go Japanese this time. I'm torn among three choices: 2005 Acura RL, 2003 Lexus LS430, and 2006 Lexus IS250 AWD. I don't want to spend more than $40k. I found a RL with 8K miles for $39.5k and a LS430 with 25K miles for $40k. Pricing for the '06 IS250 AWD is not out yet, but I was told a loaded one will be around $39k-40k. I'm leaning toward the RL, my wife likes the LS430, and I've never bought a used car before. Which would you choose? | |
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Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm) If you want gadgets, the RL. If you want full sized ride, the LS. If you want speed and a smaller car, the IS. It's pretty simple IMHO. Also, Bluetooth is such a great feature that could preclude the older LS. Side impact airbags, latch system, XM could also be an issue to you. |
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Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm)
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Replying to: delmar1 (Aug 13, 2005 12:42 pm) There's no arguing about the LS being a great lux car, but not as much fun to drive. The IS may be pretty fun to drive (can't say as it's not out) but very likely won't have the interior of the other 2 cars... Good luck. |
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Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm) |
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I can't answer all your questions about CR. But a few can be answered briefly. First, judging house paint is pretty easy. It goes on well (or drips a lot). It's easily washed and retains its color or it doesn't. It covers other colors well (or not). And heat lamps and simple equipment can tell you if it cracks, etc. Testing automobiles requires a lot more, including seasoned professionals, elaborate equipment, test tracks, time, etc. CR has a test track, but it is limited, as are its resources and equipment (especially since it pays for the automobiles up front). When one car has faults, many times CR cannot go out and buy another. But when one sample is defective for an auto mag, several samples can be tested to see if the defect is inherent in the design or merely in a specific car. The rationale is simple, CR is stretched thin testing elaborate machinery, but not so stretched testing laundry detergents and the like. I never said its household product reports were any more useful than it automotive frequency of repair records. I did say that unlike other organizations (you mentioned JD Powers; there are others as well), CR conducts surveys of its own readers only. This is bound to reinforce the opinions of the CR faithful, but not necessary that of the public at large. (It's also one reason CR's surveys often differ from those of other organizations.) I cannot tell you that Car & Driver's opinions are more "objective" than those of CR's. (There may also be editors at Car & Driver who "ride herd" on the eventual outcomes of tests conducted by that magazine.) But C & D, Road & Track, and others have access to more equipment, more seasoned experts, more professional drivers and engineers, and more varieties of automobiles than CR. They often have more funds for testing, both short term and long term (often for more than one year). Further, such auto enthusiast publications have proffered the safety and sensibility of a well handling automobile for decades. CR came very late to that party and to this day, sometimes recommends automobiles that have sloppy responses. As to the "conditioned" cars that are given to auto mags, many times these are prototypes or even pre-assembly versions. And often they are sharply criticized for fit and finish (at least as often as you will find in CR). Plus, when comparisons are done in Car & Driver, for example, you usually get the separate opinions of several different drivers in addition to the main review. (Not the one size fits all, boiled-down-to-a-single-opinion that appears so often in CR.) CR would like you to view it as a jack of all trades. And its subscribers have to view it as a good source of information most of the time, otherwise it would go out of business. (I subscribe too, but certainly not for its auto reviews.) Unfortunately, it cannot be an expert on all matters with the limited resouces it commands. It must make compromises. And those are big compromises when it comes to expensive items like cars and little or no compromises when it comes to less costly items like dishwasher detergent. But it's your money. And you'll be the one investing it in an automobile that you hope and expect to last you for years. Research your candidates thoroughly and test drive each of them—more than once if necessary. That's really the only way to be sure you're making the right choice for you.
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