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#6643 of 7333 Re: Dealers [jhuton] by acuraphile Aug 12, 2005 (8:53 am)
Replying to: jhuton (Aug 12, 2005 8:08 am) jhuton:   Uniformity and absolutism are rare commodities in our environment. I have owned nothing but Honda products since 1966, when I bought my first Honda motorcycle. That was followed by three succeeding bikes, three Accords, one Legend, and three RLs. Contrary to your presumption, (anticipating poor service based upon some level of inquiry that didn't ring of intense scrutiny), I have had nothing but the best experience with the three Honda/Acura dealerships involved in my past purchases. What would have led me back continually for thirty nine Honda/Acura years if my experience hadn't been in such sharp contrast to what I had received from other manufacturers over the years? To be honest, I've never found a car salesman, regardless of what badge he represented, who knew a damned thing about cars. I walked into my Acura dealership prepared to discuss nothing but price and delivery; I had already learned what was necessary. However, the service managers and mechanics have been nothing but outstanding.   Now, having said all that, can one stumble into an Acura dealership and be treated poorly by witless, uninformed service managers and technicians? You bet yer boots! But back to my opening line: there are no absolutes, and it's obvious that Darwin didn't assure us of the Survival of the Fittest, but rather, sprinkled in a strata of aimless, incompetent, inconsiderate cretons just to keep us on our toes.    "BUT, if based on multiple trips to the Acura dealer I am underwhelmed by their experience, courtousy, and technical knowledge -"   I don't mean to sound contentious, but what knowledge, precisely, did multiple trips yield? Were the salesmen rude or uninformative? Did the Service Managers respond poorly to well directed questions by you? In fact, what credentials do you bring to your questions that produce such negative impressions. I'm just fearful that hyperbole sometimes plays a hand, and is the Viagra of cynicism.   I regret that you can't envision sharing the fine expeience I've had being a satisfied Acuraphile. Replies to this message: jhuton (Aug 12, 2005 9:48 am)
#6644 of 7333 Re: CR [satire] by msu79gt82 Aug 12, 2005 (9:25 am)
Replying to: satire (Aug 10, 2005 2:06 pm) ... y'all can harbor whatever opinion you want about CR. But please don't belittle mine simply because you don't agree.   I continue to encourage everyone to seek other opinions as well. ... Sorry my dears, I don't have time for such hypocrisy and self-righteousness.   I'm not the one who claimed that CR's automotive engineers also worked in the dishwashing detergent lab. I could care less what anyone's opinion of CR is, but I do care about facts. And anyone who thinks CR evaluates cars by the same folks who evaluates soap IS deluded. Clearly you have an agenda against CR and that is fine, as long as you are honest about it.   FWIW: I never claimed that CR was any "god", nor have I recommended folks rush out to buy their recommended cars. I do claim that CR is a credible source of information and whose automotive reviews are just as "worthy" as other sources of information (e.g. Edmunds).
#6645 of 7333 Re: A Long-time Subscriber, But Not A Worshipper [washdcguy] by msu79gt82 Aug 12, 2005 (9:45 am)
Replying to: washdcguy (Aug 11, 2005 1:06 am) ... CR is a useful publication when it comes to paints, household products, and the like. However, to take its opinions regarding automobiles, as anything other than just another opinion, is laughable. It's frequency of repair records are tremendously skewed because of its subscriber base (unlike more objective reports than are still available via the internet and other consumer organizations). CR doesn't do objective surveys of the car buying public. It merely sends out "quickie" check off lists to those who already subscribe and buy into the CR mystique. (I know because though I continue to subscribe and get those little check off lists.)   Why is CR useful for "household products" when evaluated by "household product" experts, but CR automobile reviews are "laughable" when evaluated by automotive engineers? Why are household product (e.g. washing machines) frequency of repair records useful, but car frequency of repair records not useful? Are JD Powers reliablity studies useful? Are their checkoff lists more acurate than CR's?   How is Car and Driver (or Automobile) Magazine's evaluations any more objective that CR's?? C&D gets free use of "conditioned" vehicles to evaluate, whereas CR goes to the dealership and buys one off the lot.   I am not here to defend CR. I am here to research cars (I may buy one soon). I really would like an answer to my question! WHY should I trust Car & Driver (or Automobile, Road & Track, Edmunds, etc) any more than CR?
#6646 of 7333 Re: Dealers [acuraphile] by jhuton Aug 12, 2005 (9:48 am)
Replying to: acuraphile (Aug 12, 2005 8:53 am) I don't doubt that some Acura dealers are very good. You are correct there are no absolutes (if there were --people wouldn't be willing to spend time in Forums discussing their opinions).   First impressions go a long way, however, and I have been buying luxury cars for over 20 years and know when a salesperson doesn't know what they are talking about.   If I really liked the RL after I test drove twice- you are right I probably would have gone to another dealership and hopefully had a better experience.   The salespeople werent rude, they just werent very smart about the car's controls and operations (particularly during my 2nd test drive). On my first visit a different salesperson spent the entire time telling me how Acura is so much better than Lexus - which really wasnt helpful or very professional. Maybe my expectation was too high. Not knowing how to demonstate the Nav system is a pretty fundamental flaw in this price range. Lastly the service manager gave all kinds of excuses/caveats when I asked about loaner cars that didn't impress me. At lexus if I pull up and if they dont have a loaner, they take a car off the lot to drive with out question (even when i dont have an appointment such as oil change).   By the way, my response is only to the others in the forum that have experienced dealer problems too. I'm not here to Acura bash.
#6647 of 7333 Re: Dealers [jhuton] by jjacura Aug 12, 2005 (2:35 pm)
Replying to: jhuton (Aug 12, 2005 8:53 am) I've seen the Avalon. It's a personal thing but I still think the exterior styling is boaty and bland. If YOU are comparing it to the RL there is no refinement and smooth distinctive appeal. It would be difficult to compare the interiors because if an automobile doesn't appeal to you on the outside then it doesn't matter. But the wife and I think the RL luxury class interior is great.   My Acura dealer hand washes the car at service time and the Starbucks flows but the service is exceptional before and after the sale. The free loaners are brand new TL's...fun cars to drive.
#6648 of 7333 Unsure by dwongswong Aug 12, 2005 (7:42 pm)
My Audi A6 lease is up soon, and I've decided to go Japanese this time. I'm torn among three choices: 2005 Acura RL, 2003 Lexus LS430, and 2006 Lexus IS250 AWD. I don't want to spend more than $40k. I found a RL with 8K miles for $39.5k and a LS430 with 25K miles for $40k. Pricing for the '06 IS250 AWD is not out yet, but I was told a loaded one will be around $39k-40k. I'm leaning toward the RL, my wife likes the LS430, and I've never bought a used car before. Which would you choose? Replies to this message: jsmaz1 (Aug 13, 2005 5:19 am) delmar1 (Aug 13, 2005 12:42 pm) liferules (Aug 13, 2005 1:34 pm) kennyg8 (Aug 13, 2005 2:05 pm)
#6649 of 7333 Re: Unsure [dwongswong] by jsmaz1 Aug 13, 2005 (5:19 am)
Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm) My opinion: Either the LS430 or the RL. You are comparing going from luxury to speed (the IS). I just got my RL and its a great combination of luxury, styling and speed. And, for me, the best part of it is that it's a car that is kinda under the radar--so snob appeal is lower and you can get away with your great car and no preconcieved judgements about you!   If you want gadgets, the RL. If you want full sized ride, the LS. If you want speed and a smaller car, the IS. It's pretty simple IMHO.   Also, Bluetooth is such a great feature that could preclude the older LS. Side impact airbags, latch system, XM could also be an issue to you.
#6650 of 7333 Re: Unsure [dwongswong] by delmar1 Aug 13, 2005 (12:42 pm)
Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm) If you spend a few more thousand...you can get a brand spanking new RL. Not sure what type of miles were incurred in the first 8k you were mentioned...which is most critical in the long run. In addition...you will have a full command of choice of colors and options as the original owner. Replies to this message: liferules (Aug 13, 2005 1:34 pm)
#6651 of 7333 Re: Unsure [delmar1] by liferules Aug 13, 2005 (1:34 pm)
Replying to: delmar1 (Aug 13, 2005 12:42 pm) Yeah, that was my concern as well...why would someone want to sell their brand new RL that is less than one year old? I'd definitely carfax it, and even then, I'd be suspicious...   There's no arguing about the LS being a great lux car, but not as much fun to drive. The IS may be pretty fun to drive (can't say as it's not out) but very likely won't have the interior of the other 2 cars...   Good luck.
#6652 of 7333 Re: Unsure [dwongswong] by kennyg8 Aug 13, 2005 (2:05 pm)
Replying to: dwongswong (Aug 12, 2005 7:42 pm) You have a quite big range in taste of cars. The RL seems to straddle between the luxurious LS and the sporty IS. If you want to spend less than $40k, with a couple of thousand left over, consider the TL. Otherwise, go for the RL, which will cost you about $44k (base) plus $4k in TTL, unless you live in a low tax or tax free state.

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