Last post on Nov 05, 2013 at 12:08 PM
You are in the Acura RL
What is this discussion about?
Acura RL, Sedan
#5413 of 7386 Re: 2004 Acura RL - a couch mobile or a luxury sedan? [kennyg5]
Dec 27, 2004 (6:17 pm)
My concern is the manufacturer's commitment to its vehicles. Making a comment about exiting model as a "couch mobile" does not make me happy. I cannot be happy with something that is labeled by its own creator as a couch mobile. Now I feel completely different about my vehicle and probably will sell it rather quickly (this comment stays in my head, this is me driving a couch mobile). This unfortunate comment only added to my prior concerns about this vehicle. Paying over $40K for this vehicle, I expected comparable value. Before I bought RL I tested GS, M45, DTS,530 and couple others. RL won on the overall packaging, sort of Goldilocks approach. Nothing too hot, but nothing really too cold neither. I thought that the shape was classic which would help the resale value. I had this car for about 15 months. While no major problems were encountered, some annoyances are present. Driver's window is not tight and I can hear the wind if I drive fast enough. Also sounds can be heard from this window if I hit a bump. Dealer tried as he could, but nothing was really fixed. Leather is wearing off like in the below $20K vehicle. Had a GM vehicle before, none of these problems nor any other problems were present. I also noticed that RL does not have sufficient torque to be reliable in critical situations where quick acceleration is needed. While I still believe that overall value is there, this car is not worth over $40K new in my opinion, especially comparing to what was there available at that time. I could have gotten the GS 430 for 6 grand more. Now I wish I would have done that. The current resale value of my RL is way down, so I am stuck, unless I am willing to accept the difference. The new RL does not impress me at all. It does not have the look. (try to find it quickly on the large parking lot between other cars). It is smaller everywhere, the engine has the same problem as the prior version, too little torque to be called sporty. For the same money (around $50K) you can get much better cars with a higher resale value and higher overall appeal. The 05 RL is neither BMW-like nor Lexus-like. The all wheel drive does not help the fact that it still drives like a front wheel drive vehicle. Shorter wheelbase than the 04 model does not help on a highway. Trunk is so small that any longer trip requires careful planning with your baggage. While the SH drive is better than a typical front wheel car, it is not even close to the experience of a luxury rear wheel drive competitors.
#5414 of 7386 Re: Previous NavTraffic Problem: XM HIP.ECU failure, Now: Bad door lock [rlowner]
Dec 27, 2004 (6:30 pm)
How did you find out about the "three fingered salute?"
#5415 of 7386 Re: snow drive [r2917] sorry for the 5 day delay.
Dec 27, 2004 (6:55 pm)
Regarding the initial “snow drive” posting some 5 days ago, I regret not responding until now, but I have been on the road here in the snow covered Midwest and unable to make too much time for the town hall here on Edmunds.
I am 99% positive that your description of “feeling” the power shift from one wheel to another has nothing to do at all with SH-AWD, and everything to do with the stability control and anti-lock braking systems.
If you actually could feel the shift from wheel to wheel – the power shift afforded by SH-AWD, i.e., I would suggest that you have a defective car. I cannot imagine Acrua’s engineers or management allowing an AWD car to be released to the public that had a system that could be detected by “average drivers” – or perhaps better said, “Customers.”
I do not fault any driver for not knowing, not having been trained, or not being required to be trained on the most beneficial and effective way to use a significant control, safety and performance feature (or option) of this import and merit. However, and I find myself hesitant to even utter this thought, “these systems are so important, perhaps there should be some sort of requirement (government? shudder) for the driver to be certified or licensed or the seller to provide [required] training on these systems.”
This may be a somewhat extreme statement – and please this is not intended to spark a political debate – but I think I can demonstrate why Acura and all the other car companies who offer such technology should also offer [virtually mandatory] “education and training” to their customers who purchase cars so equipped.
I suspect there could be an argument that goes “the benefits of such systems and technologies, even to/for the untrained, improve the vehicle’s handling/control, safety and performance significantly to [somewhat] obviate the need for training in their MOST effective utilization.” In other words, a car so equipped with these systems will perform better and be safer (for the car so equipped and for other cars in close proximity). This additional measure of performance and safety is so great that additional training and education with respect to the optimum use are determined to be “desirable but NOT mandatory.”
Let the lawsuits begin – eventually.
After 10 days of training (4 2 ½ day sessions, each approximately 1 year apart), I have learned that these systems, ABS for example, do improve braking performance even when used improperly – when ABS engages, a straight-line stop or a steering stop is possible. Locked wheels and sliding tires (on dry, wet or frozen pavement) cannot be steered – sliding out of control is not only possible, it is likely without ABS.
So what is the problem, with this one system for example, you ask?
Most drivers with ABS depress their brake pedals with “x pounds of force” until the car slows or stops as they intend OR until the now familiar (to those with ABS systems) brake pedal pulsing or chattering is heard and/or felt. If the circumstances are, for instance, a snow slick covered roadway (appropriate for the past 5 days here in the Midwest at least) and an untrained driver depresses his brake pedal, the pedal almost immediately begins to “pulse” – and here is what happens: the driver maintains pressure on the pedal, steers the wheel (if needed to avoid or evade, or just to turn a corner, etc.) and either successfully negotiates the stop or turn – or runs into something (which also stops the forward progress of the car.)
The problem with this is – the stopping distance, assuming the driver behaves as noted, actually increases. However, it is possible to decrease the stopping distance AND maintain steering control IF the driver would have increased the pressure on the brake pedal to [drum roll] the MAXIMUM that the driver is capable of applying. Trouble is, most people don’t (or won’t) do this. They believe the technology “took over” the moment the pedal starting pulsing.
Before you protest and say, “What about Brake Assist?” – (The technology that increases the pedal pressure “automatically” based largely upon the speed with which the driver applies the brake) – point taken. Yet, the problem is, as good as this extra boost of technology is, or can be, it cannot think. If, for example, the driver starts a slow-down attempt with normal speed and pressure and continuously applies more and more pressure until the pedal begins to pulse, the brake assist wizard is significantly less effective.
Stability (yaw) control’s effect can be improved significantly, too, if “education and training” in the basics of understeer and oversteer have been completed.
Clearly, my opinion is that these systems are significant, important, and vital even. However, their efficacy is also substantially diminished when used sub-optimally. My argument does not quite extend to claiming that the improvements these systems can afford are 100% obviated by “improper” or under utilization. However, I do believe that systems such as ABS, AWD, Electronic Stability Systems, Brake Assist, etc., have only just started to provide the benefits they are capable of providing. Maybe until our cars have “auto-drive” like Will Smith’s futuristic Audi (model year 2035), we need to demand that our vendors “train and educate” us on the potential their products can live up to.
Before the government mandates that we all learn how to use our modern systems (found in cars, like the Acura RL), my vote would be to require the vendors (dealers?) to offer certification programs – such programs would improve the enjoyment of the product (a side effect and benefit) and improve the product’s [personal & public] safety potential.
Drive it like you live!
#5416 of 7386 Re: SH-AWD & VSA problem [shotgun]
Dec 27, 2004 (7:12 pm)
I don't question your opinion and hope you enjoy your ride as much as I enjoy mine!
#5417 of 7386 Re: SH AWD Problems and Napleton Il Dealer [kennyg5]
Dec 27, 2004 (7:17 pm)
Thanks kennyg5. Lets hope management at American Honda Motor Corp., Honda in Japan and Napleton Acura and Napleton Auto Group will in the immediate future (ie. now) begin to take its customer base far more seriously than it has as we are the lifeblood of their economic future. Thanks again. I have directed written correspondence (both via fascimile and mail) to the 4 highest positions at American Honda Motor Corp. and Honda Japan. I will surely let you know if and when receive a response. American Honda Motor Co.'s corporate offices in California is closed until the first week of Janaury 2005. No doubt management is taking a wonderful vacation in some exotic place which in effect has been paid for by the vehicles we all have purchased.
#5418 of 7386 Re: SH AWD Problems and Napleton Il Dealer [lvdh]
Dec 27, 2004 (7:19 pm)
At approx 700 odometer miles, I experienced a problem with my 05 RL similar to that which you had with your automobile (SH-AWD check light on, emissions check light on and other alarms). The following are comments as quoted from the Service Department Repair Invoice --
"PLEASE INSPECT FOR CAUSE OF ALARMS. PRIOR TO ALARMS, THROTTLE RESPONSE WAS FLAT AND NON RESPONSIVE. SHUT VEHICLE DOWN AND LET SIT FOR A FEW HOURS AND RESTART ALL GOOD FOR ABOUT 100 MILES THEN IT ACTS UP AGAIN.
ROAD TESTED SEVERAL TIMES AND VERIFIED CODE AND CONCERN. TRACED TO PIN CONNECTOR AND THROTTLE BODY PROBLEM. REPAIRED PIN CONNECTOR AND REPLACED THROTTLE BODY TO CORRECT.
ROAD TEST AGAIN AND VEHICLE DROVE GREAT."
Basically, problem was with an electrical connection and the throttle body was a COULD BE ISSUE that the factory service rep authorized to replace. The dealership that I purchased my car from, demonstrated much concern regarding the problem I had with my RL to the extent that the Service Manager contacted the factory engineers and requested their expertise in solving the problem. As a result of the dealerships interest, a Factory Tech Rep was sent in to work on the car with the Shop Service technician and the Shop Service Manager to correct the problem. According to the service invoice, 18 hours of technician time was expended to diagnose and make required repair. It was a simple repair item that just took some time to isolate. It looks as though your problem my be with your dealerhips lack of effort to correct the problem with your car and not with any severe mechanical problem. I now have 1800 miles on the odometer and have not had any other problems.
#5419 of 7386 Re: SH AWD Problems and Napleton Il Dealer [luvinmylex]
Dec 27, 2004 (7:36 pm)
LVDH's problem aggravates me to no end and I wish it would go away. Like you, I know the majority of owners out there are satified. I don't read anybody bitchin too much about anything with this car. In fact, just the opposite. Most new owners are really enjoying the experience. Those of us that are enjoying the new RL quite frankly don't enjoy hearing about this problem. But it is out there and it is real and if it was happening to you...well... (Think about it for a while!)
#5420 of 7386 Re: snow drive [r2917] sorry for the 5 day delay. [markcincinnati]
Dec 27, 2004 (8:01 pm)
Sure...you have all this snow....
in your part of the Midwest.
and all that jazz!
and my granddaughters in Houston..
enjoyed a "White Christmas"
and all that jazz!
and here in southeastern Wisconsin
we can't even track a deer! because
there is no snow.....
and all that jazz!
As usual thanks for the post...heady stuff!
#5421 of 7386 Re: Traffic XM problem [formula]
Dec 27, 2004 (10:42 pm)
A follow-up on my problems with the Nav Traffic system. Because of intermittent problems my service manager agreed to replace the XM box. This has not fixed the problem--it continues to work intermittently. I am sure it is the car/system for several reasons--the two main ones are the following:
1) at one point when it was not working while at the dealer I had him start up one of the RLs on the lot--and it's Nav Traffic system was working fine while mine continued not to.
2) my system either works or it doesn't. That is, once the car is started and the system does not come on within a minute or two, it will not come on no matter how long I drive. Conversely, if it does come on it will work for that entire trip (with the one exception mentioned below).
As an example I have kept a log since having the XM box replaced of trips and how it worked or did not:
1) 20 min drive from dealer--did not work at all
2) 10 min drive 30 min later--worked fine
1) 10 min drive--worked fine
2) 30 min drive--worked fine
3) 30 min drive--worked fine
1) 5 min drive--did not work at all
2) 5 min drive--did not work at all
3) 15 min drive--did not work at all
4) 5 min drive--worked fine
5) 10 min drive--worked fine for about 5 seconds, then for remainder of drive showed information of only a small section of one highway in the entire Bay area
6) 2 min drive--worked fine
7) 5 min drive--did not work at all
8) 5 min drive--worked fine
There is no pattern at all in terms of time of day to these problems.
It would be really helpful if folks could comment on this. That is, for folks whose system is working is it working all the time? Especially interested in folks in the Bay area.
Also interested in learning about the "three finger" diagnostic system so I can do that once when it is not working.
#5422 of 7386 Re: Traffic XM problem [nextlife1]
Dec 28, 2004 (4:09 am)
What you are going through indicates that the system IS NOT WORKING.
Decades ago, the local BMW dealer had the bad habit of replacing parts to treat the symptoms rather than cure the problem. Inevitably, the new parts failed because the problems were never properly diagnosed and remained unfixed.
Regarding the RL with only 200 miles, it SHOULD NOT be spending the last few weeks at the dealer who cannot get the parts to fix the problem. The defective vehicle should have been immediately replaced with another unit. I cannot comprehend the stubborness and inaction by the dealer who sold that particular unit, nor the lack of action by American Honda. This is SHAMEFUL .......