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Acura RL

7385 messages,  Last post on Apr 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM

You are in the Acura RL Forum.

What is this discussion about? Acura RL, Sedan

Messages Page 209 of 739

#2081 of 7385 jrock65 by robertsmx

Apr 22, 2004 (8:10 am)

But does not having Navi and AWD mean that it's not a luxury car?
No. But like I said, luxury is not about cutting back. It is about providing more than people need. More luxurious cars will have more excesses.
If I were getting a car like RL, with all the features and AWD, for $45K, I wouldn’t whine about it a bit.
 
My argument is that in the 40k to 50k class, Navi and AWD are not compelling enough luxuries that they MUST be made standard, yet. As an option, most definitely.
Luxury should not be an option in luxury cars. I can see a point of making much of the “luxury” stuff optional in mainstream cars, or even near luxury cars, but in a luxury car, I expect it to be loaded to the brim, for whatever price class it sits in.
 
About 7 or 8 years ago, xenons were only available on cars like the S class or the 7 series. Now, they're standard on many 30k cars.
True. Acura started with HID standard in 1998 RL and 1999 TL, and offered NAVI as an option back then. These things have now become option (or are standard) in sub-30K cars like Accord and TSX. If mainstream cars have these as “options”, I expect luxury cars to have them standard. In 1998 Acura TLX concept, Acura had “smart cruise control” as a feature. It never made it into 1999 TL though, and that was a disappointment. There are greater expectations in a near/luxury sedans than there are in mainstream offerings.

#2082 of 7385 by jrock65

Apr 22, 2004 (8:37 am)

"If I were getting a car like RL, with all the features and AWD, for $45K, I wouldn’t whine about it a bit."
 
Neither would I. We'll just have to wait and see how they price it.
 
As far as making everything standard in a luxury car, I still favor Infiniti's "tiered package" approach over Acura's "all or nothing" approach. I guess we just have different preferences regarding this and we'll have to leave it at that. I respect your opinion, however.

#2083 of 7385 jrock65 by robertsmx

Apr 22, 2004 (9:05 am)

Yep. It is all about favored approach. Some favor BMWs for not offering leather even at $47K.
 
Based on an early rumor, Acura is expected to target sales of 15-20K units/year for the RL. Having a lower base price could help them push the sales up, but I doubt that is really the point of luxury sedans. TL is out there to carry the bulk of Acura sedan sales (selling at the rate of 60-70K units per year), while TSX and RL would combine for about half of that (15-20K units each for TSX and RL).
 
Regarding tiered packaging, I actually prefer the idea in mainstream offerings. Honda does it better than any other. You know what you get with each trim level (in order of pricing)... Accord DX, Accord LX, Accord EX, Accord LXV6, Accord EX-L and Accord EXV6. Throwing tons of "packages" around messes up the things. Toyota and Nissan play that game quite well. I have tried to "option" things in Camry and Altima. It is very frustrating.
 
In a luxury sedan though, I expect the options from mainstream to be standard feature.

#2084 of 7385 Prediction (not mine) by markcincinnati

Apr 22, 2004 (9:40 am)

Over twenty-five years ago, Dr. Piech ("father of quattro") predicted that "all cars" would "soon" be all wheel drive -- and he gave a list of the reasons.
 
By 1984, Piech thought, or so it would seem, that he was still right, but there was scant evidence that BMW, Mercedes or, frankly, any of the "serious" car companies of the world were ever thinking of heading in that direction. Audis were "Volkswagens who knew somebody" -- like Rodney, they "couln't get no respect!"
 
Audi stayed the course -- Subaru, somehow became "the all wheel drive car company" -- which of course we long time Piech fans knew was not the literal truth.
 
Now, however, with the clarity of history, we see the proliferation of SUV's which hardly anyone ever really takes off road (but they sure do love the performance, safety and traction) and the rapid (recent, very recent) rush to create a new line of cars that are AWD begat from RWD (Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, VW, to name just a few).
 
Piech's prediction is, apparently coming true -- I for one, happen to agree and also I would hope that soon all cars will be "available" with AWD.
 
The Acura's use of AWD as standard equipment is, currently, the price to be considered a player in the "premium" market.

#2085 of 7385 backseat space by knichols007

Apr 22, 2004 (11:15 am)

Hello,
I too am excited about awd and now drive a subaru. haven't heard much about interior space with the new rl? The present model doesn't have enough back seat legroom for me with all the car seats and bending over to get them in etc. I did sit in a new tl. and was not impressed. does anyone know about this new rl and how about rear side airbags and curtains. Im the mommy crowd but we do have quite a say in what gets bought sometimes.

#2086 of 7385 Correction & Amplification. . . . by markcincinnati

Apr 22, 2004 (11:16 am)

I do not mean to suggest that VW's (or Volvo's for that matter) AWD was derived from RWD -- this, at this time, is not accurate. That Audi and VW and Skoda are rethinking their implementation of AWD to be RWD biased (40/60) is, however, the apparent next gen quattro and 4Motion design. Acrua, with only a CAR FWD basis for being, has to have either AWD or RWD in order to be allowed to sit at the Premium segment table. It is my understanding, for example, that the next gen US bound Audi A6 will ONLY come in AWD and this, in part, would appear to be the reason for the RL coming standard with AWD. In other words, both the Audi and the Acura would somehow no longer be welcome as a Premium car if they also offered their cars with ONLY FWD -- and neither Audi not Acura, as far as I can tell, have any interest in bringing out an RWD only product.
 
The automotive press or "the market" has deemed FWD cars no longer worthy to belong to "the Premium Class."
 
Stay tuned for the Cliff notes -- this is getting so complicated. And, if you've been following cars and reading about them as long as I have, you'll perhaps note that this shift back to RWD based vehicles is a 180 from the not too distant past and the much more distant past when cars such as the Cord (FWD) were considered "Premium" or "Technologically Advanced."
 
What's old is new again.

#2087 of 7385 knichols007 by robertsmx

Apr 22, 2004 (11:38 am)

RL will supposedly have a cabin volume of 103 cu. ft which would be 6-7 cu. ft better than Acura TL. Longer wheelbase and longer car (by 5 inches over TL) should contribute towards additional legroom.
 
RL should have everything standard that is in TL, and then some. Which would mean, it will have all the airbags, stability control (VSA), ABS w/EBD etc. standard.

#2088 of 7385 by varmint

Apr 22, 2004 (11:46 am)

I don't believe that making the SH-AWD system standard had anything to do with a goal of providing traditional "AWD benefits". It's just a way of dismissing the need for RWD. If they offered a FWD-only RL, there would be a good deal of press regarding Honda's alleged fixation with FWD.
 
The primary benefit to SH-AWD is that it allows 70% of the engine's torque to flow to the outside rear wheel. The fact that 30% remains up front is secondary.

#2089 of 7385 backseat space by knichols007

Apr 22, 2004 (12:07 pm)

Hello,
I too am excited about awd and now drive a subaru. haven't heard much about interior space with the new rl? The present model doesn't have enough back seat legroom for me with all the car seats and bending over to get them in etc. I did sit in a new tl. and was not impressed. does anyone know about this new rl and how about rear side airbags and curtains. Im the mommy crowd but we do have quite a say in what gets bought sometimes.

#2090 of 7385 by robertsmx

Apr 22, 2004 (12:33 pm)

Another point to note on RL’s AWD system is that it was designed for performance, not just to offer “AWD” option. Otherwise Acura could have simply used the VTM-4 as it is in MDX (which can also send up to 70% of the torque to the rear wheels, and is a pro-active system (opening the throttle engages the AWD, with or without slippage).
 
Acura added ATTS to continuously vary torque split between inner and outer wheels during cornering. In addition, the outer wheel can “speed up” to 105% of the speed at which the inner wheel is turning. This makes me wonder if the passive rear wheel steering layout using Watt-link double wishbone rear suspension would be necessary (something Honda has used for years in Accord, TL, CL and now TSX).

Messages Page 209 of 739

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