Last post on Nov 15, 2011 at 6:27 PM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Sonata, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), Sedan
#2335 of 2955 Re: Meagre V6 Power Increase & Torque Figures
Jul 29, 2003 (9:20 pm)
The Matrix I4 is, indeed, spec'd at 180 hp. At -7,600- freakin' RPM! In order to extract any type of performance, this burner has to be kept on full boil. Not only poor tractability in city driving, but it also raises questions about long term durability with the quality of motor oils typically obtainable in the U.S. When the Honda V6 was developed, it "only" delievered about 170 hp. in its 2.7 liter configuration. Further development has it at 220 hp. now and 3.0 liters. I imagaine the revised "Delta" V6 will be in a mild state of tune for at least a year before Hyundai tweaks it more. I also imagine this motor is capable of displacement increases, too. Hyundai learned a particularly hard lesson in the years 1991 - 1998 about offering too much, too soon. By the way, the current Camry 3 liter V6, with VVT, is spec'd at 192 hp. That works out to 64 hp/liter. And only with the advantage of 191 octane premium gasoline at that. Perhaps Toyota might want to consult Hyundai on engine development... The Mercedes Benz C-Class sedan has a 2.6 liter V6 rated at 168 hp. 64+ hp/liter. VVT. Premium fuel required. Another candidate for help from Hyundai? The vaunted Nissan Altima 3.5 liter V-6*, VVT, premium gas, holds its own at 68.5+ hp./liter, but only slightly so when compared to the speculated specs on the Hyundai VVT 2.7 liter Delta V6* that you seem all too ready to dismiss as old news. My "puny" 170 hp Sonata V6** (you know - the one that many disgruntled owners are ranting about a class action suit against Hyundai for misreperesentation?) had no trouble marching right past a Mercedes C-Class with the 2.6 liter finely crafted and engineered poster child of precision German efficiency up a 19 mile 8% grade in locked TC and overdrive on the way to Phoenix. (63- hp/liter) I had my A/C on - I don't know about the other guy. The C-Class is within 18 lbs. curb weight of the base Sonata V6. So, yep, I'm looking forward to slipping behind the wheel of a 2005 Sonata V6 for a test spin.
*Yes, I'm aware that this engine with exhaust system and engine management chip tricks can go to 285 hp in the new "Z", but this discussion is really about family cars. I'd like to see the "Z" that can comfortably haul mom, dad, 15 yr old "jr", 13 yr old "sis", five bags of groceries, a 40 lb. bag of "Doggie Dins", and a 50 lb. bag of fertilizer back home from the cross-town Target Greatland.
**80% of the current Delta V6's torque is suddenly available at 2,700 RPM and noticeable in the small of your back. It continues building rapidly from that point on.
#2336 of 2955 Engine Development in CY2004
Jul 30, 2003 (5:05 am)
ray_h71... Hope you are right and Hyundai does come out with a hotter version. Sonata Sport Pkg version would be nice. Tiburon really needs a lot more power. The 185 hp figure keeps the car in the middle of the pack. I was hoping for an attempt to get closer to the head of the class.
This engine will be coming out in 2004. A lot has happened with engines over the past decade. A modern 2.7L engine (one with CVVT) can and should put out more than 185 hp. We could come up with examples of engines that produce both more or less power. One example might be BMW's 2.5L I6 which puts out 184 hp and 175 lb-ft. Heck, people complain it isn't powerful enough.
I can't wait to see the torque figures for the revised engines. Americans with automatic transmissions want torque. (I drive manuals. I thoroughly enjoy my '00 Sonata GLS 2.5L V6 with 5-speed manual. But she isn't that much of a performer. Runs out of steam too quickly.)
#2337 of 2955 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study
Jul 30, 2003 (9:32 am)
I don't unerstand why Hyundai is still among the last 10.
Brand rankings in J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study
Published July 9, 2003 AUTO09A
How specific brands ranked in J.D. Power and Associates' annual vehicle dependability survey released Tuesday. The study is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model-year cars and light trucks. The figures represent the number of problems per 100 vehicles.
Brand Problems/100 vehicles
Industry Avg. 273
Land Rover 441
Source: J.D. Power and Associates
Jul 30, 2003 (9:56 am)
As a non-expert, but a purchaser of 2 Hyundais over the past 2 years, I try to put Hyundai's marketing position in perspective. When I bought my daughter's Elantra in 2001, this car had the highest horsepower in its class (140 - later revised to 135). The biggest complaint about this wonderful car was that the EPA gas mileage was not high.
The 2003 Sonata I purchased for my stepson this year has only the 4-cylinder engine, but this is adequate -- the car has so many other features!
Both cars (purchased new with automatic transmissions) were absolute bargains. The 2001 Elantra was $10,988 and the 2003 Sonata was $11,988 (after rebates).
My point is Hyundai is not a leader, but is an extremely good follower that offers excellent value. As they become more accepted (and more is expected of them), I'm sure they will work on improving horsepower and gas mileage and perhaps other refinements. But for now, I think they are intent on improving market share through value. The best way to do that is keeping their prices low and their quality high...
#2339 of 2955 Re: Hyundai engines...
Jul 30, 2003 (10:52 am)
"My point is Hyundai is not a leader, but is an extremely good follower that offers excellent value. As they become more accepted (and more is expected of them), I'm sure they will work on improving horsepower and gas mileage and perhaps other refinements. But for now, I think they are intent on improving market share through value. The best way to do that is keeping their prices low and their quality high..."
BINGO! These ARE high value family cars after all. For those who want to lay down a "protective" coating of rubber on the pavement, then buy a BMW or Mercedes V8 or V12. As for the charge of inadequate performance, there are those who would still make that charge against a $300,000.00 Ferrari, too. (Seems some would only be satisfied with all four main booster engines from a Saturn V 1st stage strapped to their car...) As for me, I have no reservations that my sub-$17,000 Sonata V6 is quite capable of earning me a speeding ticket in every state of the U.S. and every province in Canada if I get carried away with the go-pedal. I remember fondly the satisfied smirk a college buddy had on his face when his '67 VW bug displayed its bumper sticker to Boss 302s: "You've just been passed by 36 hp."
Jul 30, 2003 (1:16 pm)
"You've just been passed by 36 hp."
LOL! Were they really only 36hp? I remember in the 60's I had a lawnmower that sounded like the VW engine...
It is amazing to me how well the modern 4-cyliner engine performs. I drove both the 2001 Elantra and the 2003 Sonata and they both crept up to 85+ mph on the freeway before I noticed and took my foot off the gas. Both cars felt like they could go much faster with very little effort...
#2341 of 2955 Impressed with 2003 Sonata rental car
Jul 30, 2003 (7:45 pm)
My wife and I rented a 2003 Sonata for 7 days during the week of July 4th this year. We drove it to Emerald Isle, North Carolina--and were way over and beyond impressed with the vehicle! Both of us thought that the fit and finish was superb, along with the creature comforts and styling. I was shocked at how smooth the ride was and how quiet the Sonata's cabin was at highway speeds. In fact, I thought it was just as quiet inside as my 2002 Lexus IS300 that still has less than 2,300 miles on it. The IS300's back seat is just too small for my stepsons to have to tolerate on extended trips--and it's definitely not the ideal family sedan. Of course that's not what I bought it for anyway. We've been using the wife's Ford Escort as a family vehicle. But the Escort is nearing the end of its automotive life, so we're going to have to replace it in the not too distant future.
So, it appears as though my wife's next car will most likely be a Sonata. She and I both like the Sonata better than the Accord or Camry. It just seems as though to me that with such a great warranty and all, the Sonata offers excellent value in its class.
If there are any major, red flags that we should be made aware of regarding the purchase of a 2002 or 2003 Sonata, please advise.
Thanks in advance for any information that you guys can offer me. Positive OR negative comments regarding the Sonata are most welcome!
#2342 of 2955 2003 SONATA GLS
Jul 30, 2003 (7:53 pm)
I have to say that i love my sonata gls it has been a GREAT car so far . The drive is the best in it's class.Get one and you will love it .I get ask alot what is that your driving i say it's a sonata and everyone say's it looks like a benz.
#2343 of 2955 2003 Sonata overall rating
Aug 18, 2003 (4:07 am)
Just looking into buying a new 2003 Sonata GLS V6 and was wondering how the experiences were? Consumer Reports have rated the ride on the highway as NOT that of an Accord, Camry or Maxima. Any truth?
#2344 of 2955 Thoughts on the Sonata
Aug 18, 2003 (12:52 pm)
twood2, redzx3, and ron_m:
Stump Mode: "ON"
"Consumer Reports" - now there's a classic example of subjective reporting masquerading as objective analysis!
Stump Mode: "OFF"
My own, admittedly subjective, experience with my '03 Sonata and driving a friend's '03 Accord is that the Sonata doesn't handle quite as well, but rides at least as well. The body structure is tight, and stiff, though not quite as much so as the latest Accords. My Sonata is very rattle and creak-free so far. The Sonata handling is secure, but won't slalom with the best. It seems to have a bit more understeer dialed in than competing Japanese makes. I have no driving experience with recent Camrys, but the one I rode in rides softer. It also tended to "float" more coming off road crests, too, than my Sonata. I have no experience at all with Maximas. The Sonata comes equipped with Michelin tires and mine were quite noisy initially. However, at 7,100+ miles, they've definitely toned down considerably. They also no longer insist on tracking the rain grooves as they did when new. I'm getting 26+ mpg in town with my V-6. I see 31 mpg on highway driving at 75 mph. As you should be able to surmise, I mostly drive conservatively, but with the flow. These engines are definitely more economical than Hyundai's brochures state if driven reasonably. At 170 hp., I'd call the power of the V-6 "adequate". The Hyundai "Delta" small V-6 engine series is smooth and generally quiet, but has a pleasant growl when pushed; but, is NOT a fireball. Published benchmark 0-60 mph figures from "Consumers Digest" peg Sonata V-6s at about 8.7 seconds. When I have played, the acceleration initially will just chirp the tires, but there's definitely a noticeable "rush" in my lower back when the engine enters its torque curve at about 25 mph. The Delta V-6 is all-aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners. The I-4 uses a conventional cast iron block. Ironically, because of their all-aluminum design, the V-6 models are 5 lbs LIGHTER than the I-4 models when both are equipped with the automatic transaxle. The V-6 engine is HIGHLY recommended as far as I'm concerned, particularly in areas in which A/C will be used frequently. I have no doubts that the I-4 is a good motor, too. I may be wrong, but I think the I-4 models come with rear drum brakes. With the '03 model year, the V-6s get standard rear disc brakes.
The front end is STRONGLY remeniscent of the Mercedes C-Class models. The rear and side profile share a more than passing resemblance to the Jaguar S-Type sedans. I parked mine next to an S-Type at a restaurant. As luck would have it, when I came out, the Jag's owner was approaching from the rear. He commented that our cars were beautiful examples of elegant and refined automotive styling. I agreed, adding that in copying the Sonata, Jaguar had chosen an excellent example to emulate. I don't think he was amused when he realized I didn't own a Jag. (Yeah, I know - I'm bad...)
Stick with an '03 or newer. Some '02s had issues with OEM throttle position sensors and camshaft position sensors. I believe if either fails, you can still drive in "limp home" mode at 40 mph or less. They'd be replaced under warranty for 10 years/100,000 miles, but the late '02s and '03s have the newer, reliable design already installed from the factory.
Finally, anyone contemplating purchasing a Sonata should be aware that Korean cars are still notorious for not retaining resale or trade-in value. That dictum may be changing, but if you trade every two or three years, you'll probably take a beating. The 10 yr./100,000 mile powertrain warranty is NOT transferable to the next owner (unless he/she is a direct family member - i.e., child or spouse). The only way I'm aware of to obtain full value out of any Hyundai is to DRIVE it out of the car over the duration of the powertrain warranty. Given common sense driving and timely maintenance, that really shouldn't be difficult.