Last post on May 14, 2013 at 8:17 PM
You are in the Volvo S60
What is this discussion about?
Volvo S60, Volvo S60 R, Sedan
May 20, 2001 (3:57 am)
There is no big deal with the C Class. But Volvo is trying to design the S60 to be sportier and compete directly with MBZ, BMW and Lexus. The S60 steering and responsiveness is considered a cut below.
Comparably equipped the 2001 MBZ C class will cost approx. $35k, out the door. The C has a V6 and the S60 a transverse 5. V6 costs more and the 5 cylinder engine has to work harder to produce the same hp. The C class also has more torque and the C includes as standard, traction control or automatic slip control and is rated the best pick by IIHS in their 40 mph barrier crash test. The windshield didn't even crack and there is absolutely no intrusion into the compartment. After the crash, you could literally open the door and walk out.
Volvo is renowned for their safety feature/record and the station wagon well received but the side and curtain airbags were introduced later than MBZ/other car manufacturers.
MBZ includes 4 years free maintainance service. My MBZ dealer included car owner appreciation linguine dinner invitation to a family of five plus ownership safety advice conducted by two local police captains to ensure MBZ owners' safety and drive home safely also. Dealership also included hand car wash/vacuum everytime you visited. No purchase needed. From Monday to Sunday, everyday you also get either omelet and muffin breakfast, Edwards cinema tickets, shoeshine service, body massage [list goes on] again all free of charge and no service or purchase required.
For servicing you car, the dealer will flatbed your car or you can get a free loaner car. If they run out of MBZ loaner car, they will arrange a free rental car [not MBZ] or provide limousine drop off and pick you up when you car is ready. I doubt if Volvo can offer the above value.
The Volvo may cost a little less to purchase [depending on how you configure the car] but so is Yugo. If you are after power, go with Mustang or Corvette. Hyundai/Daewoo also offer more HP/$.
The C Class station wagon will be available this Sept. and Volvo's market share will continue to further slip behind. I liked the Volvo very much also and will definitely keep it as a second car if I decided to get one. Volvo was named a poor man's Mercedes but it is changing as Volvo is much more expensive nowadays and the maintainance and parts are very costly. My mechanic told me Volvo is less reliable and I recommend you to trade up for a Mercedes. You will know what I mean if you drive and own a Mercedes.
May 20, 2001 (5:16 am)
My brother owned a C320, and he couldn't wait to get rid of it...that is why I am trying the Volvo..every manufacturer has a bad seed..
May 20, 2001 (7:08 am)
I'm not sure what prices you are looking at, but a comparably equipped C320 will cost $42k, not $35k like the S60 T5. You can't compare the C240 to the T5 ... maybe to the base S60 or the 2.4T, but then the price of the Volvo is even less. If you're willing to pay the extra thousands for the extra service you are getting with the Mercedes, that's your perogative.
Also, why bring up Mustang, Corvette, Hyundai, and Daewoo? That was a ridiculous comparison. You are ignorant to say that horsepower and performance don't mean anything in the "sport" sedan luxury class. Otherwise, why would there be all the sport packages offered and ther performance versions of the BMW and Mercedes?
By the way, the S60 hasn't yet been tested by the IIHS, but the S80 - which is basically the same front end as the S60 - was also a best pick. I'm fairly confident that the S60 will do as well.
Mercedes are great cars, but one has to pay quite a bit extra to drive one. Personally, I can't see paying $7,000 extra just for the extra service and perks that would probably be rarely used.
By the way ... the perceived better reliability of the Mercedes probably isn't warranted. The previous generation C-Class and Volvo 850/S70 were very similar in their reliability according to Consumer Reports, with the C-Class (very) slightly eeking out the Volvo.
#415 of 3074 spade
May 20, 2001 (7:34 am)
I was posting a similar message, but then saw the previous response.
In all fairness, he/she was comparing base S60's with C240's. Even at that level, I really don't get the sense that the MB "V6" is really better than the Volvo inline 5. From what I've read, the MB 2.6 V6 is not that torquey where you need it to be.
Either way, good luck!
#416 of 3074 Decisions, decisions
May 21, 2001 (12:35 pm)
I find myself in the market for a new car, and am considering several. A few basic facts: I've got two kids in car seats, so need enough room for them, most of my driving will be commuter miles (mix of highway and city), and am coming off a somewhat disappointing interlude with a VW Cabrio (really wanted a convertible for some reason). Our other car is a brand new V70T5, which my wife drives. So, here's what I'm considering: S60T5, Lexus ES300, MBZ C class, and just for giggles, the S80T6. I've got essentially two decisions: 1) do I want a larger more luxurious car like the S80; and 2) if I go the smaller car route, which one? As to the first question, to be honest, I'd probably go the S80 route, except that I've been reading so many negative comments on the car, it makes me scared. Did anyone else out there have to make this decision and go with the S60 (or comparable)? Do you regret going with a smaller car? As to the second question, any thoughts? Sorry for the long post, but I'm struggling with this decision, and am looking for some fresh input.
#417 of 3074 ....post #413
May 21, 2001 (8:12 pm)
Tough decision for sure.. I went through a similar decision recently... I really liked the S60 over the other choices in its class.. the LEXUS design is due for a refresh, and a little too similar to the Carry for my tastes.. the BB was very appealing .. but it got costly when optioned out.. and also seemed a little tight inside.. I was all set to purchase the S60 base with 5 p. manual, but the options I wanted were not available with the manual .. In the end I ended up going to the SCAB 9-5, which was a little out of my price range.. but once I drove it, it just felt right.. roomy inside, yet still enough road feel, making it fun to drive...
As far as the S60T5 your considering goes, you won't have the issues surrounding the options that I had to deal with.. so your real issue will be deciding if its rear seat is roomy enough for your kids... (same problem with the BB). If your kids are fairly young, then you may be able to live with the back seat for a few years ..
As far as the Volvo S80 goes.. most of what I've read seems to indicate that the majority of its problems seem to have occurred during its first 6 months of availability ... since then it seems to be a reasonably reliable car. So I wouldn't let that sway you too much away from either the S60 or the S80T6...
Each of cars you're considering all have their up side... Good luck with your decision..
#418 of 3074 Having Trouble Picking A New Car
May 22, 2001 (11:35 am)
I'm in the process of finding a new vechile and i've looked at the Volvo S60 T5, the Audi A4 2.8 Quattro, and the 2001.5 Passat GLX 4Motion. Each of the vechiles have their pros and cons, and with each of them i have my doubts.
I'm hoping that i can get some input from the members here on what their experiences with the Volvo S60 have been(Good and Bad)? Where i might be able to find the best deal, and what lead you to buying the volvo over the other vechiles you where looking at? Also i was wondering if any one knows how well volvo cars hold their value
I'm just looking for a nice car, and a company that i can trust and wont try to bend me over like land rover has been doing.
All your input will be appreciated.
#420 of 3074 spade & Mercedes inaccuracies... (Rant follows)
May 23, 2001 (2:06 am)
Regarding post #409:
Hmm...a lot going on here while I've been down with Chicken Pox. I can't help but notice some inaccuracies in post #409. Mercedes has an earned reputation for safety engineering (even though their cars haven't exactly been setting any benchmarks in EuroNCAP, IIHS, or NHTSA tests in the past few years). For what it's worth (not much in my opinion), Volvo beat Mercedes (and everybody else) to market with side impact airbags on the '95 850 (which went on sale in '94). Further, and more significantly, Mercedes made the design flaw of putting their airbags in the door instead of the seat (they went on to fix the problem by making the bags larger in subsequent years to account for seat travel). Along with a slew of significant safety issues (e.g., BabySmart car seats that didn't work, 2-star crash test results in late 90s safety tests in EuroNCAP, the infamous A-class moose test mishap, etc.) I don't think I would be picking a fight in this area if I'm a Mercedes fan(Yes, Volvo has had problems as well but not this extensive - and their cars consistently earned top marks in crash tests on both sides of the pond.) I don't think Mercedes can claim to be the German leader in safety (that title seems to belong to BMW based on 3-series and 5-series test results). I await results for the new C-class which I suspect will do VERY well but I don't think it's been tested anywhere yet (and I've always suspected the current S-class would do at least as well as the S80 but I've never found a test for it either).
Regarding side-impact curtains (and several other safety innovations like electronic brake force distribution, stability control, etc.) these can not be credited to either as an innovation (although Volvo had them in production in '98 on the '99 S80 which I believe is a year ahead of Mercedes S-class). These items like so many others are the innovations of OEM suppliers like Bosch (which I believe made the curtain airbags that appeared on the Volvo S80 and were introduced the next year on the new Mercedes S-class). (In similar fashion the WHIPS seats are an AutoLiv invention, the ozone to oxygen catalyst comes from Engelhardt(sp.), etc.).
Don't get me wrong, Mercedes makes a very nice car and quite probably a bit more reliable than Volvo as well (I don't know about the new C yet though). However, you pay for what you get and then some. First, remember, Mercedes has a one- price policy. I can buy a Volvo S60 T5 for about $29.5k delivered through the OSD program. The reality for someone who refuses to pay sticker price like me is that Mercedes simply can't compete when it comes to value (a similarly equipped C320 would be MANY thousands more).
Regarding dealership amenities, I believe that Mercedes as a whole represents a more customer-focused organization in the U.S. (European operations for Volvo are world-class). However, that's not to say your local Volvo dealer can't beat your local Mercedes dealer for ownership experience (my favorite dealer includes current model year loaners, free car washes not only when you are in for service but whenever you want to stop by for one, factory built Volvo limos for local transport, etc.).
By the way, I don't know where you get your information but it's a bit inaccurate. The T5 has more torque than the C320 (243 vs. 221 ft.-lbs.) The S60 T5 hits higher HP and Torque numbers than the C320 and at significantly lower RPMs - in other words it's the Mercedes engine that has to work harder and produces less. I can also provide several online references to auto reviews touting the handling capabilities of the S60 (and I believe it was Germany's own Auto Motor und Sport that pointed out the fact that the FWD S60 has LESS under steer than the RWD e46 BMW). However, I do agree with the general sentiment that it is just under the BMW overall in this area (despite the German mag. review.) The Mercedes C320 Sport seems to be in between the 2 in this area.
Regarding maintenance costs - are you crazy? Neither of these cars are cheap but the Mercedes is definitely more expensive in the long-run. Call your local Volvo dealer and find out the price for an oil change and the price for the normal scheduled service. Now call your local Toyota dealer and ask the same questions. Do the same for Mercedes. I'll bet you'll be surprised to find out how close they all are with Mercedes on top? Part of the reason why you pay thousands more for Mercedes now is because you are paying for 4 years of maintenance up front. It all comes down to personal preference but I prefer to pay as I go during the warranty period so I can have a better feel for true operating cost so I can know whether I want to dump the thing before the warranty expires. With built in maintenance (a ploy started by BMW to get around the bad image they built themselves for high maintenance charges in the 80s) many owners are getting shock at actual maintenance costs outside of warranty periods (which are significantly higher than the discounted payments manufacturers make to dealerships for warranty repairs). In the long-run neither Volvo nor Mercedes will be cheap in this area (especially with Closed Area Networks and proprietary interfaces) but historically Volvo has been cheaper than Mercedes in this area. I suspect Volvo will start closing in on Mercedes since these cars now feature the same types of CAN electronics, the same Bosch or Siemens engine management systems, etc.
Hey, the 'free' breakfast sounds nice but we all know it isn't truly free right? (Again, you've already paid for it.) Regarding the police captains talk about safety - umm what? I'm not sure what sheltered lives some people may lead but I've got enough common sense to take care of myself while driving (I certainly see value in having police increase someone's situational awareness though - I just have a problem having the cost built into the dealership's operational costs that I have to subsidize with my purchase).
Regarding market share - both Volvo and Mercedes will make significant gains this year with these cars since both replaced older aged designs. However, long-term I suspect both will suffer from strong competition like the new A4 and more significantly new entrants like the Jag X-type (Jag name, great power and handling reviews, standard AWD, etc. for less money than the Mercedes).
spade, and many others, enjoy your Mercedes. They are very nice cars and certainly offer more prestige than Volvo (which is another reason why I drive Volvo). Personally, I don't think you can go wrong between the choices offered by Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, or Volvo these days. Each offers average to above average reliability, average to above average safety, etc (of course in the new era beginning now we have 200 hp Nissan Sentras, 227 hp compact Subarus, 8 and 12 cylinder VWs about to arrive, etc. so luxury cars are going to be really pressured to deliver more val
#421 of 3074 Question for the Group
May 23, 2001 (9:26 am)
In reading some of the posts it seems that a lot of people have chosen the S60 2.4t. When i went and looked at the S60 they did not have one at the time for me to test drive so i drove the base model and the T5. I'm leaning more toward the T5 if i decide to get a Volvo, but i was just wondering what other people thought about the two. I know the T5 has more horsepower and some other different features you can get. But in ya'll's opinion is it worth it to pay more for the T5. Or does it just come down to personal preference.
Plus if anyone has anything to add pertaining my previous post on my car buying decision please let me know. And i do understand that since this is a volvo group that their will be favoritism toward the volvo.