Last post on Jun 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM
You are in the Lexus LS 400/LS 430
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 400, Lexus LS 430, Sedan
#1698 of 8465 Lexus Quality
Aug 06, 2001 (2:16 pm)
I do not own an LS 430, but rather a 1995 ES 300. But I wanted to mention a few points. First, I believe the LS 430 was rated the car with the fewest defects of ANY car by JD Power. Second, my family has owned several first-year Lexus models, including a 1990 LS 400 and a 1998 GS 300. Neither has had even little problems. While some of you may have experienced these things, overall Lexus is still superior to other makes. Look at the MB S-Class -- it still has quality issues and it is a few years old. Yes, Lexus must look at these issues and keep trying to improve. But I think anybody would fare much worse buying a first-year car made by another manufacturer.
Two other notes: I bought new in 1987 the all-new 1998 Honda Prelude. It was the 57th car built. I had it for 98,000 miles and never had a problem. Also, I plan on buying the new ES 300 as soon as it comes out.
#1699 of 8465 bitkahuna
Aug 06, 2001 (2:41 pm)
Personally, I totally agree with you, reliability is important but it's not all that matters.
As you said, all car manufacturers have their own problems they have to deal with, the German ones with their fuel sensor, for example. I'm surprised that there are quite many minor problems with your GS though.
However, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the issues can be easily traced and fixed and not be repeated, they don't bother me too much. I don't mind visiting the dealer on a few occasions as long as they are capable not giving me the silly run around or patronizing talk. One very important factor which Dzhango has pointed out is the dealer factor, it makes such a big difference.
In Canada I know, they have factory MB shops and their service is much better than the regular MB franchise dealer.
Lexus makes good cars, for example, the killer stereo (with the dash CD changer) and the quiet cabin. Would I buy them simply because of they are
much more reliable than the rest? Probably not.
Aug 06, 2001 (3:50 pm)
I said: "I agree that some are overly defensive and overly confident about Lexus."
You said: "bitkahuna ... still evidently believes that cult exists here (or at least in me)."
I rest my case on the defensive part, since I said nothing about a cult.
Based on studies though, overall clearly Lexus makes the highest quality, most reliable cars out there.
My beef was with a slight air of smugness in some posts on here and on the other boards, seemingly taking some delight in the problems people are having with S-Class vehicles.
And now you and ljflx doubting some poor guy's account of his LS430 problems, which sounded like you were doubting this could possibly happen to the LS430 altar.
On ClubLexus.com as well, there are some stories of horrendous problems (paint peeling off factory spoilers, major brake problems, cars that are impossible to balance properly, very shoddy dealer AND Lexus corporate treatment), etc.
We just need to all be humble, respect all opinions (even ones as badly presented as bolony's) and recognize that while most of us love our Lexus cars, some owners have bad experiences, and in fact, everyone's ownership experience is unique, depending on so many factors like expectations, perceptions, dealers, the vehicle, how it's treated by the owner, so it's pretty hard to generalize at all. I'm sure some people had a great experience owning a Yugo.
#1701 of 8465 my 2 cents
Aug 06, 2001 (6:50 pm)
Since I started all this let me appologize to dzhango for the doubts I expressed. I said I would feel bad if it were true and I do. I hope you can resolve your problems. You shouldn't have them on a car of this caliber and if I were you I'd write a strong letter to the Lexus USA ceo if you keep getting a run-around. The dealer should also go to bat for you as he should know it will help him retain a customer.
Bitkahuna - if you want to see a cult go look at the S board this past winter. When you see comments like "heaven forbid you're going to buy a Lexus" you know that is a cultish arrogance that doesn't exist here. I think you mistake confidence for arrogance. Despite what I read here I still expect the car to remain as close to flawless as possible provided I maintain it properly. Why? - because I'm defensive of Lexus or my purchase? Hell no. I've had over 6 1/2 years of perfection so I have a lot of confidence that it will continue. On top of that my mom just went 7 flawless years and 96k miles in a v-6 xle Camry so I got her a 2001 in January which has continued her perfection. Do I have a guarantee that my Lexus perfection will continue? No. But I like my chances with this company and this car better than any other car in production. If something does go wrong they will still have a great batting average based on my experience. I'm pushing 12k miles on the pine car which is probably more than most people on this board and it is letter perfect. I honestly don't know anyone in a Lexus (or a Toyota for that matter) who doesn't rave about its reliability and great service, both from the dealer and the company so this coupled with the posts so eloquently written by flint350 who stated things better than I can are what led me to the doubts. Those things coupled with bolony's recent posts - and please I hope you don't take any of his instigating nonsense seriously - raised questions about a post I was dead wrong about. Remember we all took a long hard look at the S and rejected it. And I'll do it again when my lease is up. If we were such Lexus loyalists we would never have set foot in the Benz dealership in the first place.
See you guys in a few weeks I'm vacationing from here.
#1702 of 8465 ljflx... thanks...
Aug 06, 2001 (7:58 pm)
Again I didn't say anything about a cult.
As for confidence vs. arrogance, there's a different factor on the S board, and that's SNOBBERY, the worst type of conceit. Thank goodness I don't see that here.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to stir things up here...
Your humble contributor.
#1703 of 8465 "Perfection"
Aug 07, 2001 (4:25 am)
I have a couple of thoughts about the exchange between Dzhango (BTW, I think it was Django Reinhardt, not Dzhango) and the others regarding "perfect" Lexi, about Lexus relaibility, and about this board. My LS 430 has less than 5000 miles on it and it has already required more non-routine trips to the service dept than my 90 LS 400 did in 125k. My groan is back (after the dealer has done everything they can think of to make it disappear), I had a creak in the door panel where my arm tends to rest (I'm tall and the arm rest is too low), and a creak in the rear suspension. The dealer and Lexus' Cust Service are still uncertain as to when the phone problem will be solved. I did not expect these experiences when I bought the car.
Having said all that, I am likely to buy a Lexus again when I am back in the market (although I will shop around, as I did this time). The dealer has been extraordinarily conscientious in dealing with these minor problems, and generally the car has been a joy. I want these problems fixed (and the groan is REALLY starting to get under my skin), but I expect that they will do so and that I will be pleased. No car manufacturer can achieve perfection, and perhaps Lexus has grown faster than they should have, but everything I hear about the dealer-and-service experience for the cars even marginally competitive with the Lexus convinces me that if I am annoyed about Lexus, I would be apoplectic about BMW or MB.
Finally, I enjoyed reading how intelligent and well-mannered individuals could reach agreement (after a rocky start) or at least an understanding on this subject. Makes reading the board a pleasure. Boloney, take a lesson.
Aug 07, 2001 (7:09 am)
Have you tried the "limits check" outlined in post #1601? My car's groan was "fixed" by the dealer, then started coming back. I went through the "limits" exercise and haven't heard it since (nearly two weeks, now).
Aug 07, 2001 (7:30 am)
First, let me emphasize that I enjoy the heat of the "debate" itself, while I present my own opinions. So, please take nothing I say personally. Now then, to your points.
w210 used the description "like a cult" to which you replied "I agree some are overly defensive and overly confident". My statement lumped these together to say you and others believe there is "some sort of cult following" behind Lexus. I don't believe this is inaccurate. I believe the two opinions stated together were characterized correctly. I didn't say you used the word "cult". Now let's not get too heavily into semantics, but I believe my characterization was accurate. You and I have had this discussion before and we still don't (and probably won't, which is OK) agree.
So, I believe you "rested" your case too soon since you based it on the fact that you just didn't use the word "cult" when you go on to repeat your contentions that many of us are "overly defensive" and re-iterate your earlier assumption that we "seemingly take some delight" in the S Class problems. You certainly imply, if not directly state, there is a contingent (cult?, following?, group?) that does feel that way. I believe that to be inaccurate and said so earlier. No one was taking "delight" in the problems, it was more of a "there, but for the grace of God, go I" kind of thing. Yet you repeat it, hence, possibly you still believe it. You add another comment about the "Lexus altar". So it would appear,to me anyway, that you do indeed believe in our cult-like following, as stated by w210. You may find this "defensive", but in my opinion, you rest your case on unstable ground. Whether you personally used the word "cult" or not is not the point.
As for my doubts about dzhango - I'll say it for you one last time - in my FIRST post on it, I apologized in advance in case of my assumptive error. In my second post on it, I apologized again and explained why I first had doubts. I strongly agreed with him and others that Lexus had screwed up and should take forceful action. I admitted then, now and always that Lexus is not perfect, yet you and others continue to imply that this is how I (we) feel. No one said this couldn't happen to dzhango, but we had doubts that were expressed. They were wrong. Now, how much more humble need I be?
I believe I do respect others' opinions, though I will not agree with you on bolony. As far as I'm concerned, he/she forfeited any respect from me with his/her outrageous comments. You are free to differ and respect them as you wish.
And while your last paragraph is nicely said, it is not new - we have been saying these things all along. Only, within that context, we have pointed out the differences and reasons why we chose Lexus over Benz or Bimmer or whatever. That is the purpose, I think, of these boards. The fact that one is most likely to experience less problems with a Lexus is not arrogance or pompous or conceit or snobbery, etc. It is a statistical fact, for which we should not be made to feel "defensive". Friends still, I rest my case. Ray
#1706 of 8465 Sfmartin/groan
Aug 07, 2001 (9:36 am)
Yes I did try that technique, and thanks for posting it. (You learn the most interesting things here.) Unfortunately, although it did give me more travel in the wheel (a good thing by itself) it did not solve my groaning problem. My 9-yr old has taken to imitating the noise as he gets out of the car. My next suggestion to the dealer is going to be to disable the tilt-away feature until Lexus can figure this thing out. I had the feature on my 90 LS and kept it turned off most of the time. Fortunately, neither girth nor age prevents me from getting out of the car with a stationary steering wheel. I am delighted, however, that the trick worked for you, and hope the solution is permanent
#1707 of 8465 Steering wheel groan... To Nealm1
Aug 07, 2001 (11:55 am)
I experienced a similar noise on both my 98 LX470 and 99 LS400. The noise was resolved during one maintenance visit with the LX but the LS required a part order which took awhile to arrive.
Anyway, the dealer was able to rectify the problem, the repair orders stated a rebuild. If your dealer cannot resolve the noise why not request a visit from the factory rep. I had an alignment problem on a previous LS ('95), requested a visit from the factory rep and was given four new tires, as well as an alignment, as an apology!! The factory rep was an extremely pleasant individual and definitely wanted to please the customer. This service sold me on Lexus and was the primary reason I went with the LX470 instead of the Toyota Landcruiser.