Last post on Jun 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM
You are in the Lexus LS 400/LS 430
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 400, Lexus LS 430, Sedan
#1695 of 8465 Dzhango - last thoughts
Aug 06, 2001 (5:47 am)
Thanks to all for the input. The earlier responses -- that I was making all of this up -- was mildly unnerving.
Flint, I understand your points re: "bolony." I agree that caustic comments on a board like this serve no purpose. I think the comments should remain informational. (I am thinking of Enigma's comments from last summer regarding pricing on the 2001 LS 430 as I write this). On the other hand, I don't think a sound refutation of a shrill, pro-MB guy like "bolony" can be based on the notion he is wrong because Lexus is always right.
Second, as I mentioned earlier, if I had it to do over, I would select MB for the entirely personal reason that its local dealership is closer to my home. I agree that an MB is more likely to require servicing. My errors were: 1) In assuming the LS 430 would be comparable in quality to either my Toyoya Avalon or my wife's Honda Odyssey (and would therefore require very minimal servicing); and 2) That if the vehicle in fact proved to be a lemon, Lexus would provide more than the legal minimum relative to its replacement policy, given the premium price it asks for.
Finally, I registered as "Abbott Costello" in order to avoid junk mail. "Abbott" is the name of my dog, a Labrador retriever (Abbott Labs). When mail comes to the house or e-mail comes to my computer with that name on it, we know that it is junk mail and can be discarded.
#1696 of 8465 Window Tinting
Aug 06, 2001 (9:45 am)
Had the same issues you do; here is what I found: The Navigation antenna is supposedly in the front dash. Therefore, as long as you don't tint the windshield you should have no trouble with the navigation system.
However, the Lexus Link antenna is in the back dash, near the subwoofer. Therefore, if you tint the back window with a metallic tint it could affect the Lexus Link.
In my case I used metallic tint on the side windows (metallic reduces more heat,lasts longer and requires a lighter tint color), and a non-metallic tint on the rear window. All is well after 2700 miles.
Aug 06, 2001 (1:04 pm)
It seems we agree. Except (still) about bolony. No one disagreed with him because "he was wrong and Lexus is always right." We all took strong exception to his opinions because they were caustic, anti-semitic, misogynistic, often ill-conceived and worded like the work of an (uneducated) child. He added nothing positive to any discussion, just wanted to stir up trouble. That is why he was so soundly rebuked, not for the content of his opinion.
I also understand the no-spam name, many others do so as well. Bolony had posted just before you and his name was Chef Boyardee, I believe. It just was further proof he wasn't to be taken seriously, given his tantrums and negative posts. I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion with you (and apologized). Despite bitkahuna and others finding this debate as some sort of cult following for Lexus and a stubborn refusal to accept Lexus' faults, that is just not the case. Read my post, I agree Lexus has some problems and should address yours more forcefully. I am not hiding here saying only good things about Lexus. When there is bad to be told, let's tell it. But there is quite a bit more good, on average, yet when we mention that, we are often called defensive, biased, etc. etc.
The doubt some showed toward your post was, possibly, born of a certain defensive nature that began on the luxo comparison boards where, generally anything not Benz is not good enough. We who believed Lexus has a better product were always accused of that. Some misinformation was spread and many of us quit posting over there for quite a while. When bolony's and your post showed up together, especially the nastiness in his, it caused some of those old feelings, I guess. But, no one here that I recall, ever said that such things just couldn't happen in a Lexus. Yes, there was surprise, but there is no cult (IMO)that sees only the good and none of the bad in Lexus. Just read back a ways and see some of the complaints. I went thru this a while back with bitkahuna who still evidently believes that cult exists here (or at least in me). Maybe some folks just won't be happy until we all sit around here and just trash Lexus. Well, I don't plan to do that unless they deserve it. And when they deserve it, I do it.
You certainly have enough reason to do it. I truly regret your bad experience and feel fortunate in my good experience. That is all I can really offer. Good luck with your situation and again, I'm sorry for what doubt I expressed, even though it was expressed mildly and with room for correction. Ray
#1698 of 8465 Lexus Quality
Aug 06, 2001 (2:16 pm)
I do not own an LS 430, but rather a 1995 ES 300. But I wanted to mention a few points. First, I believe the LS 430 was rated the car with the fewest defects of ANY car by JD Power. Second, my family has owned several first-year Lexus models, including a 1990 LS 400 and a 1998 GS 300. Neither has had even little problems. While some of you may have experienced these things, overall Lexus is still superior to other makes. Look at the MB S-Class -- it still has quality issues and it is a few years old. Yes, Lexus must look at these issues and keep trying to improve. But I think anybody would fare much worse buying a first-year car made by another manufacturer.
Two other notes: I bought new in 1987 the all-new 1998 Honda Prelude. It was the 57th car built. I had it for 98,000 miles and never had a problem. Also, I plan on buying the new ES 300 as soon as it comes out.
#1699 of 8465 bitkahuna
Aug 06, 2001 (2:41 pm)
Personally, I totally agree with you, reliability is important but it's not all that matters.
As you said, all car manufacturers have their own problems they have to deal with, the German ones with their fuel sensor, for example. I'm surprised that there are quite many minor problems with your GS though.
However, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the issues can be easily traced and fixed and not be repeated, they don't bother me too much. I don't mind visiting the dealer on a few occasions as long as they are capable not giving me the silly run around or patronizing talk. One very important factor which Dzhango has pointed out is the dealer factor, it makes such a big difference.
In Canada I know, they have factory MB shops and their service is much better than the regular MB franchise dealer.
Lexus makes good cars, for example, the killer stereo (with the dash CD changer) and the quiet cabin. Would I buy them simply because of they are
much more reliable than the rest? Probably not.
Aug 06, 2001 (3:50 pm)
I said: "I agree that some are overly defensive and overly confident about Lexus."
You said: "bitkahuna ... still evidently believes that cult exists here (or at least in me)."
I rest my case on the defensive part, since I said nothing about a cult.
Based on studies though, overall clearly Lexus makes the highest quality, most reliable cars out there.
My beef was with a slight air of smugness in some posts on here and on the other boards, seemingly taking some delight in the problems people are having with S-Class vehicles.
And now you and ljflx doubting some poor guy's account of his LS430 problems, which sounded like you were doubting this could possibly happen to the LS430 altar.
On ClubLexus.com as well, there are some stories of horrendous problems (paint peeling off factory spoilers, major brake problems, cars that are impossible to balance properly, very shoddy dealer AND Lexus corporate treatment), etc.
We just need to all be humble, respect all opinions (even ones as badly presented as bolony's) and recognize that while most of us love our Lexus cars, some owners have bad experiences, and in fact, everyone's ownership experience is unique, depending on so many factors like expectations, perceptions, dealers, the vehicle, how it's treated by the owner, so it's pretty hard to generalize at all. I'm sure some people had a great experience owning a Yugo.
#1701 of 8465 my 2 cents
Aug 06, 2001 (6:50 pm)
Since I started all this let me appologize to dzhango for the doubts I expressed. I said I would feel bad if it were true and I do. I hope you can resolve your problems. You shouldn't have them on a car of this caliber and if I were you I'd write a strong letter to the Lexus USA ceo if you keep getting a run-around. The dealer should also go to bat for you as he should know it will help him retain a customer.
Bitkahuna - if you want to see a cult go look at the S board this past winter. When you see comments like "heaven forbid you're going to buy a Lexus" you know that is a cultish arrogance that doesn't exist here. I think you mistake confidence for arrogance. Despite what I read here I still expect the car to remain as close to flawless as possible provided I maintain it properly. Why? - because I'm defensive of Lexus or my purchase? Hell no. I've had over 6 1/2 years of perfection so I have a lot of confidence that it will continue. On top of that my mom just went 7 flawless years and 96k miles in a v-6 xle Camry so I got her a 2001 in January which has continued her perfection. Do I have a guarantee that my Lexus perfection will continue? No. But I like my chances with this company and this car better than any other car in production. If something does go wrong they will still have a great batting average based on my experience. I'm pushing 12k miles on the pine car which is probably more than most people on this board and it is letter perfect. I honestly don't know anyone in a Lexus (or a Toyota for that matter) who doesn't rave about its reliability and great service, both from the dealer and the company so this coupled with the posts so eloquently written by flint350 who stated things better than I can are what led me to the doubts. Those things coupled with bolony's recent posts - and please I hope you don't take any of his instigating nonsense seriously - raised questions about a post I was dead wrong about. Remember we all took a long hard look at the S and rejected it. And I'll do it again when my lease is up. If we were such Lexus loyalists we would never have set foot in the Benz dealership in the first place.
See you guys in a few weeks I'm vacationing from here.
#1702 of 8465 ljflx... thanks...
Aug 06, 2001 (7:58 pm)
Again I didn't say anything about a cult.
As for confidence vs. arrogance, there's a different factor on the S board, and that's SNOBBERY, the worst type of conceit. Thank goodness I don't see that here.
Anyway, I'm really not trying to stir things up here...
Your humble contributor.
#1703 of 8465 "Perfection"
Aug 07, 2001 (4:25 am)
I have a couple of thoughts about the exchange between Dzhango (BTW, I think it was Django Reinhardt, not Dzhango) and the others regarding "perfect" Lexi, about Lexus relaibility, and about this board. My LS 430 has less than 5000 miles on it and it has already required more non-routine trips to the service dept than my 90 LS 400 did in 125k. My groan is back (after the dealer has done everything they can think of to make it disappear), I had a creak in the door panel where my arm tends to rest (I'm tall and the arm rest is too low), and a creak in the rear suspension. The dealer and Lexus' Cust Service are still uncertain as to when the phone problem will be solved. I did not expect these experiences when I bought the car.
Having said all that, I am likely to buy a Lexus again when I am back in the market (although I will shop around, as I did this time). The dealer has been extraordinarily conscientious in dealing with these minor problems, and generally the car has been a joy. I want these problems fixed (and the groan is REALLY starting to get under my skin), but I expect that they will do so and that I will be pleased. No car manufacturer can achieve perfection, and perhaps Lexus has grown faster than they should have, but everything I hear about the dealer-and-service experience for the cars even marginally competitive with the Lexus convinces me that if I am annoyed about Lexus, I would be apoplectic about BMW or MB.
Finally, I enjoyed reading how intelligent and well-mannered individuals could reach agreement (after a rocky start) or at least an understanding on this subject. Makes reading the board a pleasure. Boloney, take a lesson.
Aug 07, 2001 (7:09 am)
Have you tried the "limits check" outlined in post #1601? My car's groan was "fixed" by the dealer, then started coming back. I went through the "limits" exercise and haven't heard it since (nearly two weeks, now).