Last post on Feb 16, 2013 at 11:05 PM
You are in the BMW 5-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 5 Series, Sedan
#8513 of 12737 I don't play
Feb 20, 2004 (2:48 pm)
the "Mine is bigger than yours" game. Nobody wins. I have been posting on this board since 1998, I don't troll.
The intent of my post was to clarify the fact that contrary to a previous post, the G35 does in fact compare better to the 5 series than any other car in the BMW line up.
You are absolutely right. I would also add value to the criteria list. I guess it just depends on what your perception of a diamond is.
As cdnpinhead said "It's pleasant to have such choices."
Feb 20, 2004 (2:56 pm)
"As cdnpinhead said "It's pleasant to have such choices."
#8515 of 12737 5-Series vs. G35
Feb 20, 2004 (3:09 pm)
Hmmm, if memory serves, we had a topic like that here once. Something like 10 well thought out and rational posts and 400 flames. :-/
Interestingly enough, even though I ordered my 530i before the G35 was released, given that I did the ED thing and picked up my car here in the States some three months after I ordered it, I had a chance to check out the G35 during the wait. Also, on the day I picked up my car here, my dealership had a black G35 on their lot (I assume for evaluation purposes as they were not an Infiniti dealership), and I had a chance to have a second "Look See".
My impression is that while on paper the G35 may well be a valid competitor to the E39 5-Series, it missed the mark more than enough of a margin to satisfy me that my money was well spent. My main complaints were:
1) The look, which to my eyes is no where as pleasing as the E39, but far more pleasing than the new E60.
2) The quality of the interior materials, which did not impart the warmth and richness of the materials used in my 530i, or for that matter, the materials of my then outgoing 1999 328i.
3) Control layout. I don't remember exactly but it seems to me that the seat controls as well as the controls on the console were, at best, unfamiliar and not logically located or actuated.
4) The (then) lack of a manual transmission.
All but item #3 were "Show Stoppers" in my book, and would have prevented me from buying the car, even if the 5-Series was not an option.
So, do I think that the G35 is a valid competitor to the 5-Series? Well, it depends on what is important to you. For me, at the time, it wasn't.
Feb 20, 2004 (3:24 pm)
have it both ways, much like the current political weenies.
I posted earlier that the 5-series is the benchmark, but that I'd buy a G35 with my settlement cheque. Both true. The settlement that I'd get from my four-year-old manual-transmission-equipped Lincoln LS would probably buy a cup of coffee with something left over to go toward. . .one or the other.
The additional $$ that the currently-avialable BMW 5 (that'd be the ugly one with the unproven electronic "stuff") would cost over and above the G35 isn't coming out of my investment funds anytime soon.
Maybe eventually. Time will tell.
#8517 of 12737 G35 vs 5-series: Doesn't matter which is better
Feb 20, 2004 (4:06 pm)
What the cognoscenti in these forums think is one thing. G35 will be getting a big piece of the pie. It has more power, it's better looking, it's a luxury marque, it's 20 grand cheaper and Infiniti has good advertising. BMW ads are almost nonexistent.
On-paper means a lot in the public's perception, and the money saved will go a long way in the reality category.
400 to 10. Flames vs rational thinking. E39 is gone and we're left with the costly E60 fruit crate. Yeah, it's still the ultimate driving machine, but there is good reason expect some equanimity.
Feb 20, 2004 (4:23 pm)
The only thing a G35 has on the 5 is size and price. It's got the performance to hang with BMW just fine, but it falls short of the 3 in creature comforts. The driver memory seats don't include the mirrors, the passenger mirror doesn't do that tilt-down thing, the manual-mode auto tranny doesn't let you pick a gear like a steptronic -- it's more of a top-gear limiter, no rain-sensing wipers, and even though it has nifty reclining rear seats, people complain that they don't fold down for a pass-through. Not to mention the things you can get in a 5 that the 3 doesn't offer. But, if you want the performance, need the extra space, and don't have quite the cash.. it's definately going to steal sales from BMW.
#8519 of 12737 Comments on Atomicpunk and shipo
Feb 20, 2004 (5:50 pm)
Atomicpunk -- my opinion is in line with yours on IDrive, after 2 months use.
I've noticed that the owners who use Idrive become used to it quickly and, once up the learning curve, actually find very useful capabilities in the system. Also, the two programmable buttons *do* solve a lot of the minor hassles.
There are other things you get used to very quickly: the different feel of the turn signals (annoying at first, then it becomes very intuitive), and the odd cruise control (again, once used to it the function works well). There are other items that annoyed me at first until I figured out the new approach that was being taken.
This is a key difference between owners and more casual users (car reviewers and those who only test drive it). It's not intuitive, but a new approach to things. You definitly don't just switch it on and run it; you have to approach the idea from a different angle than the industry-standard controls all cars currently share. But once learned, it does most of its functions well, and a few quite well. That is not an apology for the "hard to learn" issue: they could have done it better. But "better", in my mind, would be user selectable/customizable menus, more than anything else. I think the Edmunds reviewers, and many others, have missed the fundamental fact that I-drive (and all screeen-based controls) are a very new way of doing things. Seeing the new from the eyes of the old (and old is not age, but technology) makes it difficult to adapt to the new.
As to the "power" dialog: I only have a 525. I've found that now it's broken in, operating the auto in standard mode lets me play around in the 3-5K RPM range, and I can do a heckuva lot with the torque up there. That said, I'm sure the 530 and certainly the 545 have to be a lot more interesting. Just that a 525 does well when manually shifted, so I think that the lower gears of the steptronic may be configured differently in some way than the E39 version. Perhaps shift points? Don't know.
Loved my E39, but am finding the E60 has grown on me quite a bit in a short time.
One more minor comment on the G35: it'll take share, because it's a nice car at a great price. But it really isn't a 5-series by almost any get-in-the-car-and-go driveability measure. When you get in it and drive, it just isn't in the same league, whatever the specs. Again, great car, great price...but it doesn't feel the same, or even close, to the five. To be honest, it's more like a 325 with a bigger engine. So, irrespective of the dimension/power specs, I'd call it 3XX comptetition, not 5XX competition.
Best to all--
#8521 of 12737 Banglenot... iDrive
Feb 21, 2004 (10:44 am)
"I think the Edmunds reviewers, and many others, have missed the fundamental fact that I-drive (and all screeen-based controls) are a very new way of doing things."
1984 brought the new way of doing things. 20 years later we all play computers like a piano. I find iDrive to be just another low-tech app at the ripoff cost of about 2 grand. What's more, you have to bring it to BMW if you need service and upgrades, that is, if it is upgradeable.
2 grand will get you the Microsoft Office suite and maybe 20 years worth of upgrades that you can install yourself.
In my opinion BMW is trying to sell ice to Eskimos.
Banglenot, your user name is interesting, especially since there seems to be a dichotomy in the fact that you have an E60 525. Care to explain?
In any event, welcome to this place!
Feb 21, 2004 (2:19 pm)
Thanks for the welcome--
Point taken on the 1984 analogy, but let me offer a spin on it.
Real driver-interfacing computer solutions in cars need (1) low-cost LCD display screens; (2) low cost and very integrated motor/relay/control systems with computers; (3) a relatively cheap and acceptably robust OS; (4)a requirement for low costs, both initial and warranty related and (5) very conservative engineering needs of the car manufacturers (costs a heckova lot for recalls).
After all, for $2K selling, it probably needs to have a fully loaded cost of about $500-700 to be profitable in a two-step 30% hardware margin distribution chain; and more important, it needs to survive a vibrating platform and temperatures between -30 and +140F. Only a statistically very small population of units can fail for the next ten years or the economics fail drastically -- a geologic age in computer terms.
I think what all that adds up to is that we're seeing high-end first/second generation stuff, with costs and design flaws to match. In the 1984 analogy, we're somewhere around the X386 level, with some brilliant ideas and some real bogus ones. Just the way a tech market evolves.
As this stuff moves downmarket over the next few years, I think it'll become (a) understood by the mass of drivers, (b) expected as a typical part of design and daily operations (so will not be a surprise) and (c) multiple refinements of interface and controls will define the market-driven solution with more or less button added to the screen interface.
BMW is at the "no buttons with the screen" end, while Audi and MB are at the "some" or "lots" of buttons integrated with the screen.
I'm at the stage of add a few more buttons to IDrive for quick access, and make the menus more customizable, and we're close to being in the right place. I personally don't like (for example) MB's 60+ buttons on its E series, and was turned off Audi by the darn red buttons everywhere as well as the marginal handling -- but that's my preference and I'm sure others will have theirs.
BTW: Banglenot was a whim -- at the time I was agonizing about replacing my E39 with an E60, and expressing my frustrations. My feelings right now are Banglenot 7 series; BangleOK 5 series; Banglegood 6 series; and Bangledon'tmesswithit toomuch 3 series :>.
Seriously, I like my 5 quite a bit at this point, and when I flip my lease in 3 years, I'll agonize but expect the 2007 5-series will be a pretty nice car as it evolves. Of course, maybe by then it'll be BangleIwishyouwereback.....
Best to all--