Last post on Feb 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM
You are in the BMW 5-Series
What is this discussion about?
BMW 5 Series, Sedan
#8120 of 12737 Thanks Bentleyfam25!
Dec 18, 2003 (2:05 pm)
After reading the other threads, I realized you were in the market for an E60. I test drove the E60 and loved the ride, but I'm not a big fan of Bangle's design. Unlike you, I buy my cars and I usually hold onto them for approximately five years. My last BMW, was a 5 series as well, but a 1995. I purchased it as a certified pre-own in 1998. The car was fantastic! Bought it with only 32K miles from the same dealer, where I bought my new 2003. The reason why I purchsed a CPO and not a new 1997 or 1998, was I loved that older body style, and the dealer offered me a great price on the car, which was really like buying a 1996 (I realize BMW didn't make a '96 5 series), because whoever owned the car before, purchased it brand new December 27, 1995.
#8121 of 12737 Well, it wasn't addressed to me, but I'll try lease ?
Dec 19, 2003 (4:25 am)
1. Does BMW do anything special for you if you again lease a BMW after the first lease (better price, terms, etc.)?
BMWFS doesn't, except they'll usually waive the security deposit. Now, the dealer may not "bump" the rate or "bump" it as much for a returning customer. BTW, BMWFS isn't as competitive at the moment as they usually are.
2. I am currently about 1000 miles over the allowed mileage. How strict are they on the mileage requirement when you again lease a BMW?
Between BMWFS and the dealer, they can make the miles "go away" if you buy or lease with them. As a hint to others, you pay $.20 for over miles, but you can purchase extra miles at $.16 up to 9 months before contract end. You can do it on-line and have it included in your next statement.
3. Do you have any suggestions regarding how to better negotiate a new lease.
Arm yourself with the rates that are currently available from BMWFS and some of the bigger leasing companies so you know if the dealer is giving you the rate without "bumping" it.
4. In your situation, if I may ask, what was the lease buy-out price on the e39? Was it below current market price?
BMWFS changes their residuals often to reflect the changing market. Some lease companies will negotiate the residual at lease end. The optimun time to do this seems to be in the last 45 days of the lease. You can find the wholesale, auction, trade-in price to get a realistic idea of what the leassor will get for your vehicle. If that number is more than a $1000 less than your residual and you want the car, add, say, $500 to it and make a firm offer to a manager of the leasing company.
5. On your e60, if I may ask, how long and how many miles is your lease and what is residual and money factor?
Dec 19, 2003 (6:38 am)
..let me add a couple of observations to your comprehensive answer to pen101. The numbers correspond to pen's original questions.
2. Since I'm coming off my first lease and am below mileage, the only negotiating point was the marginal condition of my rear tires. Since I'll have bought or leased 3 BMW's at that point, I'll negotiate to get out of the cost of the tires, but have no experience to offer on how flexible BMWFS is.
3. Since a surprising number of people walk in with no knowledge, being able to speak comfortably about residuals (should be .62 of MSRP right now for the 5) and money factors (.00235), and particularly the imputed interest rate of the money factor, makes you 1000% better off than most. If you look around, there are calculators and board postings available to let you understand every one of the moving parts of a lease. There are a lot of moving parts. Sometimes you can negotiate them, often you cannot; but knowing what they do gives you a very strong negotiating position. If you can speak knowledgeably, you will make enormous progress very fast; the rep will cut through the usual BS rap and talk to you with respect. Also, there are a few services out on the Web that will offer competitive quotes to give you a few alternatives besides BMWFS. It hasn't been my experience that the rates for BMWFS can be moved, but others here have been somewhat successful. Since I couldn't move the lease terms, I decided to beat down the price of the car.
4. My experience was that BMWFS was not willing to grant a higher residual at end of lease, since the E39 was being replaced and it's current market residuals were unclear. That said, I'm going to take joatmon's advice and see what I can do with them. Never hurts to take a shot at it. BTW, I think pen101 and joatmon were adressing different questions. Joatmon was implying you could buy the car for a lower price from BMWFS, which is likely true. Pen was implying that you might get BMWFS to be forgiving on mileage, etc or to take it back at a higher price. IMHO: they might forgive some wear and tear, are less likely to forgive mileage and are very unlikely to take it back at a higher price than residual.
5. My residual was .62 and MF was .00235. I did 36mo/36K because it works for my use of the car. As I said above, the rep wasn't willing to move the BMWFS numbers, and by the time we were finished he was giving me a polite but less-than-sincere smile -- I doubt he wanted to do me any favors at that point.
Since you asked, pen101, let me offer a few thoughts, for what they're worth, on the experience. One thing about buying a car: since you do it many times in your life, investing the time now pays off down the road. And, frankly, its a lot of fun to match wits with an experienced rep. Be polite (unless someone misleads you or tries to bait and switch at the last minute, then start screaming). Use the phone to talk to several of the guys who handle the internet leads. They're used to the phone and know how to dicker with courtesy and respect. Ask a lot of knowledgeable questions. Keep a spreadsheet with the key points of your deal with each dealer. Don't commit to a deal until you're sure that you've got the best price, and rotate through your four dealers to do it. Allow a month, since time is on your side. Gently and courteously push on all the issues until you've got a deal that you believe is fair, then keep your word as you expect them to keep theirs. When you're ready to visit them, go over each of your points with them on the phone and make sure the deal terms are clear.
To all, if you've had experience with getting BMWFS to move lease terms on the '04 5 series, let the board know what and how. Could be interesting.
Pen101, hope the above helps. Right now, you should be able to get a 525 for around $1 -- 1.2K over invoice without too much trouble, maybe less if you're persistent. Good luck.
Dec 19, 2003 (7:18 am)
then I'll shut up. For all you folks wondering why you negotiate so hard to lower the base price on a lease, here's a few numbers: mine is $577 times 36 or $20.7. An MSRP lease is around $650 times 36, or $23.4. That's $2,700 in your pocket for your efforts. In effect, on a lease, you usually get more than a dollar saved for each dollar you dicker for.
#8124 of 12737 not to drag this on toooooo much
Dec 19, 2003 (9:21 am)
IF buying a 2004 E60 545, Can the.62 residual and Money factor of .00235 be obtained on European delivery? Especially for $1500 over ED wholesale???
Dec 19, 2003 (10:08 am)
To clarify some points.
1. A financial institution (like BMWFS or Chase, etc.) offers a lease with a fixed residual and money factor and they are then "sold" to you by a dealer. The dealer may offer it to you marked up (called a "bump") or may offer it at the `offering rate. So, the negotiation is technically with the dealer.
2. At lease end, some leassors will negotiate, some won't. BMWFS has not usually negotiated much if at all on buyouts for less than residual. However, I understand that they may relax that policy a bit. It never hurst to ask. Another consideration is that the dealer may want your car, esp. if it can be CPOed. If the dealer sees a nice profit on reselling your rig, you may have certain things "forgiven"
3. Some people are better off buying, some better with leasing. Others could do either. Take my case for eample. I bought an X5 on Feb. 28th. I leased a 530i on April 22nd because the money factor was .0010 for a 36 month, 45k mile lease. I put down 9 extra security deposits making my effective money factor .0001. So putting $4050 in security deposits and paying about $8 a month in lease charges makes sense even if I plan on keeping it long term. Why would I buy with these conditions?
I recommend that anyone that doesn't have a clear need to either lease or buy that they analyze leasing vs. buying to see what's best for your situation at that time.
4. Probably the best advice I can give is to never "need" to buy a given car right now. A pro can smell it before you enter the lot. In buying new, there's always another exactly like it. Money factors change and things could get better. No need to rush. BTW, if you send an application to BMWFS, you're locked into a rate for 60 days I believe it is. If the rate gets better, you get the better rate. If the rate goes the other way, you keep the original rate when you applied. If you do it right, you get to pick the best of 3 months offerings.
#8128 of 12737 BMW Leases
Dec 20, 2003 (2:12 pm)
Wow! Thank you jack and bentleyfam25 for your comments. I learned something.
#8129 of 12737 BMW 5 Series Purchase
Dec 22, 2003 (9:23 am)
I would appreciate if someone can give me some advice on my interest in buying a 5 Series BMW. I have a 96 Saab 900 SE turbo convertible (94K) that just got hit by a deer and is in need of repair. Ideally, I would like to take the insurance repair money and apply it along with the remaining trade-in value and buy a USED 5 Series BMW that has the new handling features.
Can someone tell me how best to accomplish this with my insurance company as well as what year (e.g., 2001) the 5 Series upgraded to its current handling package.