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BMW 5-Series Sedans

12737 messages,  Last post on Feb 16, 2013 at 11:05 PM

You are in the BMW 5-Series Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 5 Series, Sedan

Messages Page 298 of 1274

#2967 of 12737 Four Things by cdnpinhead

Mar 25, 2002 (6:46 pm)

1) Leases -- It's interesting that those who rent (lease) cars care about a rebate if they don't drive the contracted miles. It's a business deal, much like a medical savings plan in today's IRS world. If you guess wrong, you lose. Another option: you could actually buy the car.
 
2) Reliability -- This is a huge one for me. I've learned to really enjoy European cars (especially Audi . . . sorry), but I haven't found anyone who will praise European reliability. What many do is denegrate vehicles that actually demonstrate reliability by referring to them as "appliances." Here's my put: reliability falls into three categories: a) Infant Mortality -- anything that packs up in the first year. In this price range, you'd like to think there won't be anything here -- I'm stunned by the number of owners of cars in this class who are pleased that their vehicle has managed to get through the first 8500 (or 1200, or 835) miles -- they seem to feel that a month without a visit to the dealer is a blessing. b) Warranty Range -- the folks who rent (lease) their cars survive here, and even those who buy are still pretty happy here (hey, the manufacturer pays). Help me understand how one values the time it takes to get the car to the dealer and put up with all that then ensues. Being one of the unwashed, I'm extremely intolerant of this. I just want my car to work -- the fact that the manufacturer pays is interesting, but doesn't help with the loaner and lost time. c) Exceeds Customer Expectations -- Here's where what I consider true reliability comes into being. If the car you bought (or rented) takes you to the dealer less often, costs you less over the long term, or just pleases you beyond what you thought it would, you're going to fall into this category. These are the Toyota or Datsun weenies who brag about a vehicle that's still running after 200K (or 400K) miles. I recognize that I'm one in 12,313 (always use prime numbers) visitors to this board who even understands (let alone appreciates) this concept. When my 1993 240Z ran happily to 225K miles (this was well before Toyota & Honda taught the unwashed masses to expect this), I was ready to write a testimonial (didn't, because I was lazy then, as now). The bar is higher these days (or maybe not, for cars "in this class"), but what if someone posted in praise of a RWD sports sedan with 250+ hp and a standard transmission that ran to 200K miles with only shock/tire/filer/oil-type of replacements? Think it'd compete? Maybe we'll get a chance to find out.
 
3) Consumer Reports -- I bought a Lincoln LS partly because CS (isin't that an apropos acronym?) rated it highly. Moments (well, months, actually) later, they considered the LS unworthy (based on reliability. . .go figure). This stuff seems to happen regularly. I bought a Chrysler product in 1995 based on a similar CS recommendation. Anyone buying a $25 - 60K car based on CR recommendations is, to put it kindly, a naive individual. Buying trash bags based on CR data is possibly a good idea. Otherwise. . . Yeah, I'm a moron for listening to CS twice in a row. Please don't follow my example. . .even once.
 
4) Colours -- The BMW "Electric Red" rocks. I've jabbed the Lincoln board to no end regarding the metalflake (easier to hide defects) colours. I may end up having my LS repainted with the BMW (or similar solid) colour. On another board, someone was asking what orange-peel was. Ignorance is bliss
 
I mean no offense. Those on this board are aware (or should be) that the BMW is the standard. Others tilt at your windmill. Many of us choose to spend less. Bear with us.
 
Your car rules.

#2968 of 12737 Reliability by kdshapiro

Mar 25, 2002 (7:28 pm)

I would like to offer an observation on your post, which was well thought out. Most automobiles these days are extremely complex. Certainly much more complex than they were even a few years ago. It seems to me the more complex the auto the less likely it will be able to go the distance reliably, due to the number of computers, high temperature of the engine, complex emission systems and in general the number of interrelated subsystems. Can you point to any loaded modern day luxo-car, which after it starts turning 125,000 doesn't start to have major problems with vehicle subsystems? Most people don't keep their modern luxo-mobiles for the distance. While reliability of Lexus, Acura and Infinity (not to mention all other manufacturers) are great the first three years, what happens in the 8th year of ownership; to the auto climate control, to the power windows, to the electric seats, to the fancy radio with the cd, to the engine components, to the tranny, to the heated seats, sunroof or heated mirrors, to the body. Be it European, American or Japanese my guess is, with todays high revving, high tech cars it's not a matter of how much, it's a matter of when.
 
PS My 1984 Toyota Celica went 12 years 85,000 miles and was never in the shop. That was the last car I could say that about. Of course the car by today's standard was far less complex. My 1990 Taurus Wagon went 6 years, the last two were expensive ones.
 
One more thought it's not the distance that gets most cars, IMO, it's the age. A 4 year car driven 40,000 mi/yr will have in total less wear and tear than an 8 year car driven 20,000.

#2969 of 12737 Locating & Negotiating by riez

Mar 25, 2002 (7:31 pm)

boxster... I used the BMW USA CPO locator and put in a rather large search radius. I ended up driving 590 miles one way to the dealer I worked the best deal out with. Did all my dealing, including the trade, by computer, fax, and telephone. You might consider widening your search area. Don't know how good you are at negotiating. I've bought a couple dozen new cars in the past 15 years. For myself and others. I love to buy cars. Find it fun and challenging. You, the buyer, are in the driver's seat. You control the sale. Negotiate hard. Play dealers off against each other. Do the dealers take you to be a serious buyer? Helps if they know you can and will buy a specific car they have today if you can agree on a price. Have they run a quick credit check on you? Or believe/know you can pay cash?

#2970 of 12737 CPO by dl7265

Mar 25, 2002 (11:56 pm)

I dont know but around here, your paying allmost new prices< and in case of ED> maybe more.
 
 Curtiss: I think you got the discount cause you plug the program even more than BMWNA ...
 
DL

#2971 of 12737 Real Cost of ED by riez

Mar 26, 2002 (6:25 am)

dl7265... I would love to see someone track all the time & paperwork and every single expense involved with going European Delivery. That includes all the time spent doing everything. And every single cost. If you have to buy a passport, any medical preparation, airfare, hotels, tolls/fees, meals, gifts, maps, tourist guides, etc. All the vacation-related costs. Down to the penny. By the time you add in all the time and expense, don't think you really end up saving anything. You get a car and a vacation, but you had to take a lot of time to do it and it delays when you can get your vehicle. So how much is that worth? Don't know, but don't think ED is something I'd want to do until I'm retired! Then I'd have the time and could work thru all the issues, big & small, and any hassles.
 
Buying a used newish highly sophisticated BMW would scare me if it weren't under a decent warranty for some significant length of time/miles. Since I have yet to see a really good 3rd party extended warranty, I think the manufacturers' certified programs are the only way to go for true peace of mind.

#2972 of 12737 RE: Real Cost of ED by riez by snagiel

Mar 26, 2002 (7:33 am)

I haven't gone through the process, which certainly seems to be more involved than traditional delivery through the dealership. But I don't understand your skepticism here. For a 540i6, the MSRP spread between regular delivery and ED is $3,775. Since ED cars do not come out of a dealer's inventory allotment, some may be willing to even further reduce their regular margins and cut a better deal. But regardless, if you want to get the best deal possible there's no question it's the way to go. You can--although I doubt many do--fly out to Munich (about $900 r/t from the East Coast), catch a cab to the delivery center (100DM=$45), sign the papers, and leave the car, take a cab back to the airport ($45), and fly back. All told, about $1000, while you're saving close to $4000.
 
For most ED customers, though, I suspect they are interested in going to Europe anyway, so this offers them a great opportunity to do so (the car savings either pay for the trip or certainly subsidize it substantially), not to mention saving costs on rental cars while there.
 
All those costs you list are costs people would face regardless on a trip; therefore, they can simply pick up the car and leave, if that's their only goal.

#2973 of 12737 Cost Savings of ED by nyccarguy

Mar 26, 2002 (7:57 am)

I'm hope to do ED partly for the savings, but also for the experience of exploring a continent which I have never been. I know this is the 5 series thread, but I plan on getting a 325Ci via ED in the fall. I'll be saving approximately $3500 off US MSRP (I believe you save over $5000 with the 5 series). I can get more options in the car than I would if I were taking US delivery. I'll also get to enjoy a vacation in Europe with my girlfriend (which we were planning on anyway). I'd rather drive my BMW around then take the EurRail & Tourbuses. For me, ED is more of a value thing.

#2974 of 12737 Costs of ED... by shipo

Mar 26, 2002 (9:43 am)

I guess it all depends on your perspective.
 
Givens:
Airfare: Round trip EWR to MUC; I am paying $447.00 per person, plus a mandatory $12.38 for FedEX to deliver our tickets (SAS does not do E-Ticket) to my home. As for shopping for said tickets, it took a whopping hour and a half to do the research on the Internet AND buy the tickets.
Food: We gotta eat, regardless of whether we are at home or on vacation.
Lodging: Based upon the airline pricing, it seems that you need to spend at least two nights to get the best fares, many folks over on the 3-Series board have stayed at a very comfortable hotel called the Hotel Uhland (sp?) in Munich, which has nice (read, not the Ritz) rooms for about $60 (USD) per night.
Paperwork: The 530i that I am picking up in Munich in about 3 weeks required two more signatures than my 1999 328i that I leased here in New Jersey, all in all, the paperwork in no different. Oh, and I will most likely have to sign a few more times in Munich.
Documentation: Hmmm, well, at least in our case, we both have passports already, so, for us at lease, that is a non-issue. To go to Germany, there are no Visas, Medical Checks, International Licenses, or any other documentation to deal with.
 
Single person, short trip ED delivery (using my car as a basis for savings):
Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
Price of Airfare: $453.19
Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $65.00
Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $12.00 (according to those who have done it)
Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
Two nights at Hotel Uhland: $120.00
Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $10.00
Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00
 
Total cost of ED related items: $1,243.19
Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $4,056.81
 
Two Person, 8 days on the ground ED delivery:
Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
Price of Airfare: $906.38
Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $130.00
Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $24.00
Lodging for 6 nights: $600.00 (Figured WAY on the high side, just in case )
Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
Last night at Hotel Uhland: $60.00
Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $20.00
Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00
 
Total cost of ED related items: $2,523.30
Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $2,776.62
 
Assuming that the best deal I could have done on a domestic purchase would have been $1,500 off MSRP, the “Lone Wolf” approach would still save $2,556.81 by doing ED. In the case where two folks take a short vacation (just like my wife and I are going to do), we would still save at least $1,276.62. Oh, and we get a FREE vacation in Paris, in the spring no less.
 
In reality, we would have taken a trip to Paris anyway, and we would have probably rented a car while we were there. With that in mind, the only differences in costs to me will turn out to be the net difference between the cost of the weekly rental car in Europe (figure $275) and the “Lost Month Payment” while my car is on water. So, the way I look at it, I am saving more like $5,000 (off MSRP) by doing ED and more like $3,500 (assuming a $1,500 discount off MSRP) in real world savings.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#2975 of 12737 And Shipo by nyccarguy

Mar 26, 2002 (10:17 am)

Driving your BMW on the roads it was meant to be driven on: Priceless.
 
I know its corny, but I just had to say it!

#2976 of 12737 And, not to mention by habitat1

Mar 26, 2002 (10:42 am)

the "free" use of Shippo's extraordinary research analysis which would take anyone else at least a few hours to complete and document half as well.
 
As several frinds and associates have indicated to me, one of the most difficult aspects of ED is the wait and anticipation. But hey, they feel the same way about our annual golf outing. At least with ED, they end up with a great car and don't lose too many balls in the process.
 
Consider this, you don't save anything by going ED on a Mercedes, and Porsche actually charges you extra to take delivery at the factory. BMW is one of the few options for making it a unique event for yourself and your family and still saving significant dollars in the process.

Messages Page 298 of 1274

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