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Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry
2813 messages, Last post on Dec 25, 2011 at 2:37 PM
You are in the Honda Accord Forum.What is this discussion about? Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Sedan
#429 of 2813 sebring95 by wenyue
Feb 24, 2001 (11:02 pm)
Hehehe,
I don't think Toyota wants to buy GM. Ok, so Toyota has over $20 billion laying around in highly liquid funds, but there is a historical reason for that.
In the beginning of in 1950's, Toyota was just a little nobody in the bombed out post war Japan. Sold a grand total of 250 cars (no joke) for the first post war car model, the SA. Nissan (Datsun) and Mitsubishi dominated what's left of the Japanese automobile marke. Toyota was near bankrupcy by 1952, was a major take over target (kind of like Honda in the early 1990's, but Toyota was in deeper).
By some miracle, it survived. I think it was the Crown model sedan that saved the company. (Interestingly, "Camry", in Japanese means Crown). Anyway, after that close call, Toyota was determined never to be on the take over list again, and has ever since kept a large chunk of liquid fund read to fight out any possible take over.
1 or 2 billion dollars for that is fine. But even with the purchase of Daihatsu, Hino Motor and a chunk of Yamaha, $800 million for production increase in 1999, the cash reserve kept on growing in size. Now at over $20 billion, I can joke that maybe Toyota doesn't know how to spend it. 
What is exact plan Toyota has for that money, I don't really know. But I can see some possibility and the effects it has.
(1) Initiative: By have enough money for a take over against any automaker means all of the competitors must divert resources to plan against a take over, and react to Toyota's moves.
(2) Acqusition: Toyota rencently have made major efforts towards a hipper image. Toyota maybe wishing it had bought BMW earlier, and may do so next time it is offered. It maybe other companies, but that's all guessing.
(3) New brand: recent news say that Toyota might establish a third brand. Centered around the Genesis group, it will comprise the new cars such as the Matrix, possibly RSC and the upcoming Supra successor (4000GT with 400 hp). Toyota has denied it, but I wouldn't put it past them.
(4) Non-automotive expansion: Toyota group now comprise of 425 subsidaries. In part to prepare the future "digital cars", Toyota is backing Japan's 2nd largest telecom company. Being the largest investor, BusinessWeek say Toyota may put invest over $1 billion a year into it. Other expansion maybe into other market sectors, as recent alliance between Toyota and SONY. Online expansion, creating Japan's Yahoo/Amazon equivalent (called Gazoo). Who knows? I can't possibly track all the things Toyota has in Japan. Looking at the 425 subsidiaries and 130+ affiliates, it feels almost like Toyota is Japan.
Anyone interested in Gazoo, feel free to go to http://gazoo.com/
Have fun.
#430 of 2813 Passat vs Accord: Need Your Advice by louie57
Feb 25, 2001 (8:40 am)
I know I am slightly off topic but would appreciate your thoughts on the last 2 cars on my short list. I have owned 2 Accords, both purchased new; a 1991 which I sold to buy a BMW, and a 1985 which I still own. I have narrowed the choice to a 2001 Accord LX(G) which in Canada is the 4 cylinder with power windows, locks, ABS and alloys OR a year 2000 Passat GLS, also 4 cylinder demo with 8000km (4800 miles). The Passat seems to have more features such as 4 wheel disk brakes, standard ABS,trip computer, traction control (not available on Honda). They are both 150 HP
5700 rpm. The Passat is a 1.8 liter engine, the Accord 2.3 liter, the torque on the Passat is 155 1750-4600 rpm; the Accord is 152 4900. The Passat is a 5 speed auto and the Honda a 4 speed automatic. The Accords brakes are front disk and rear drum. The Passat also has keyless entry, alarm system and side impact air bags. The ACcord LX does not have these features. The Passat's MSRP is approx $30,780 qnd would be discounted to $25,130 for an on the road cost after taxes of $28,900. The Honda on road cost is $28,200 (which is discounted about $2,000). The Honda pricing was not broken down for me. The issue is not the cost defferential. The Passat is discounted more heavily...about 18% off MSRP. The Honda is discounted somewhat, and more than any other dealer would offer. I recognize the dfference in the model year 2000 vs 2001 and the demo vs new. The VW dealer will add 6 months to the warranty and 10,000 km because it is a demo with 8000km. The net result is the demo will have an unreduced and slightly enhanced bumper to bumper warranty. Normally 2 years or 40,000km, in this case becomes 2 years and 2 months (since car on road from Nov. 00) and 50,000km (40 plus 10). The Passat power train warranty is 5 yr/80,000km vs Honda's 5yr/100,000km. Honda's comprehensive warranty is better at 3yr/60,000 km. Corrosion warranty is 12 yr unlimited mileage for Passat; 5 yr unlimited mileage for Honda. Passat has 2 year 40,000km Road side assistance; the HOnda does not. The Passat has a trip computer; the Honda does not.I drive about 15,000 km per year 30% city, 70% highway and plan to keep this car about 10 years if possible. The Passat looks and sounds good; my reservation comes from the short warranty which makes me feel that Volkswagen lacks confidence in their product. All comments welcomed!
#431 of 2813 Passat vs Accord: Need Your Advice by enternamehere
Feb 25, 2001 (5:41 pm)
It does sound like the VW dealer is really trying to give you a good deal. Have you had the car checked out by a third party to see if it's been in an accident etc. Past history of maintenance may be worthwhile and can be furnished if you ask the dealer to provide you with warranty repair history (should have VIN included) made to the vehicle.Personally I think that over the long run the Honda is going to hold up better than a VW, but If all looks well with the Passat and you prefer it over the Honda then go for it and enjoy.
#432 of 2813 louie57 by sobers
Feb 25, 2001 (8:25 pm)
If I were you, I would do a THROUGH mechanical checkup on the Passat. Get its VIN and run a COMPLETE check on CarFax.com or related site. Passat though a good car has low comprehensive warranty & attracts more costly repairs and maintainance than Accord. I would also think of having an extended warranty.The most important point about 2000 Passat is that it should be considered 20-30% depreciated. Which makes me nervous. The same dealer would offer you what you paid minus 30% NEXT day of your purchase. So in this case I would like you to get it atleast 20-25% below INVOICE. I would also suggest that if you HAVE to get passat get the 2001 model year. The same engine now has 170HP and the same mileage. Everybody on this forum knows my 'bias' towards Honda but still I think 2001 Accord would be better buy than the 2000 Passat any day if you are not getting a HEAVY discount on the passat.
In short I would suggest that STAY away from 2000 Passat which is a demo having some crude-miles on it and get the new 2001 Passat or Accord.
Hope this helps.
For Honda canada is a VERY SERIOUS market I saw a very large amount of Honda/Acuras in Canada than any other make in my short period there. They are doing many things right there I guess. Last 3 years I saw a handfull of RLs in USA. In 3 days in Toronta/Niagara I saw a bunch of RLs.... Don;t know why is so.
#433 of 2813 Wenyue: Complement to Toyota !! by sobers
Feb 26, 2001 (12:34 pm)
My friend wanted to perform 75K mile service on his 93 Taurus. There was an old couple doing first oil change on their Toyota Camry LE. I had a small talk with her, she said it was their second toyota first one being 82 Sxxxx(?) which they dumped after 238K miles ! She hoped this Toyota would also run forever !! She also mentioned how she liked the quite ride the toyota gives!!#434 of 2813 re:sobers by liufei
Feb 26, 2001 (4:10 pm)
30% depreciation on Passat?? Are you sure? I thought that car is one of thefew car that the dealer usually has the advantage since the supply and demand
are pretty even out (lots of demand for it).
If I'm not mistaken, didn't VW has a 10yr factory warranty of some kind? Or is
it that for their Audi brethren?
#435 of 2813 Low APR Financing vs Cash Rebates/Cash Back by hunter001
Feb 26, 2001 (6:14 pm)
One significant difference between Low APR financing and Cash Rebates/Cash Back is that for the Low APR Financing, YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY through a credit check. It is not mandatory that you will get it, just because you bought the car.In other words, if you have a not-so-impressive credit history, you almost definitely WILL NOT QUALIFY for the Low APR financing. If you need the car, and your credit rating is not tops, you either walk or get financing at a higher/lower rate from a different source. In case of cash back/Cash rebates, regardless of your credit rating, YOU WILL DEFINITELY/MANDATORILY get the "Cash back"/"Rebate" from the manufacturer.
Later...AH
#436 of 2813 sober by wenyue
Feb 26, 2001 (7:31 pm)
Hey, thanks for the compliment. Honda is a very reliable brand itself.Sorry that I couldn't check the forumn yesterday and today (and throw in a few cents in your debate at the news and views confrence), got struck down by the flu.... Thanks. The day doesn't look so miserable now.
#437 of 2813 wenyue by liufei
Feb 26, 2001 (7:45 pm)
hehe, take a good rest. You going down with a fluprobably gives a moral victory to anyone who've been
taking a friendly jab at Toyota and its product.
#438 of 2813 Depreciation by sobers
Feb 27, 2001 (9:13 am)
30% is a common figure if you went to dealer. Thats because dealer HAS to make profit on everything. So sombody debating 2000 Pasat and 2001 Accord I would adsvise him to go with 2001 Car or if he likes passat go with 2001 Pasat: 20 HP more wouldn't hurt !!VW has 2-24 compr and 10 year powertrain. Eventhough supply wasn't good for 99, it was ok for 2000 and 2000 swa some subsidized APR/Lease for end year Passat. 2001 supply will be even more
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