Last post on Dec 25, 2011 at 1:37 PM
You are in the Honda Accord
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Sedan
Sep 20, 2000 (9:11 pm)
We are going around in circles. So this is my last post. People choose Camry for their own reason. Why don't you ask them? They can probably give you a million different reasons.
As for KBB value. It's incorrect. They are not the MARKET average. Have you looked at the retail value KBB quote you for a used 99 Camry and Accord? It's MORE expensive than buying the car new. That makes alot of sense doesn't it? The value they quote are the initial dealer OFFER. Not the actual final price. (Why in hell would any one by a used car, if they have to pay, according to KBB, more than buying a new car). Edmund post the average MARKET price. The price that transaction is actually dealt at. You won't see Edmund saying your used car is worth more than when it's new. Edmund's number is clearly the more logical and reasonable number. And the difference in resale $449.
Camry had fleet sale way before 97. Toyota has always been doing control feel sale. So has Honda. So if resale has been high for more than a decade, it's not about to change now. By the way, Camry became a midsize in 1992. Accord didn't become midsize until 1998.
Accord is noisy. Don't take my word for it, take Edmund's and Car and Driver's word for it. Along with the general consensus. They all agree Accord is noisy.
Interior layout. What's wrong with Camry's interior lay out. It's one of best ones. Accord is more modern? Gee, all this subjective talk. Might as well turn this into a liberal vs conservative debate.
chasies. Well, Camry's chasis is quieter, and softer, and seems to be safer as well. Accord is sportier. Again preference.
Anyway. I think most people could agree Accord transmission is rather harsh. Please check Accord's forum, you will see complaints about the transmission, not the case in Camry forumn. Camry advantage #1.
"1)Resale is better for Accord."
Agreed, but $400 some dollars isn't a big deciding factor for most of the buyers". So yes, it's a small advantage for Accord. 1 point for Accord.
"2)There shouldn't be any problem accepting about
4Cyl engine. Better power, Better highway passing."
Agreed. But Camry's 4 cyllnder is does it's job. People are not all about power, or else the Civic (which is slower than the Camry) would never sell. People buy what they like. Anyway, yes, the nod goes to Accord. 1 point for Accord.
"3)Visibility Drive an Accord to know about it.
It has prob'ly the BEST visibility in it's class
or may be in any class. (Odyssey has HUGEvisibilty)"
Camry doesn't have bad visibility. Visibility is not a problem in the Camry at all. But Accord does have a slightly better visibility, ok, 1/2 points.
"4)Value Accord is better value."
This is a repeat of (1). We already calculated the value difference, $449. Trying to score extra points? No points.
"5)Better Suspension setup"
Incorrect. It depends on the preference in ride. For family use (the majority of the buyers), Accord suspension characteristics is inferior to Camrys. I would actually say Camry has the ride advantage. I would actually put 1 point for Camry, but I will refrain, and say no point.
"6)Better Steering response/feedback"
Again, depends on the preference. camry's steering is very relaxed and totally vibration free. This again, is either advantage or disadvatnage depends on your driving preference. No point.
Total, 2.5 points for Accord.
Now my turn.
(a) Camry quietness. It's signficantly quieter. Everyone agree. 1 point for Camry.
(b) Camry softness. It's signficantly more comfortable ride. 1 point for Camry. But since then you can claim Accord has sportier ride, and get 1 points. So ok, then cancle out. I would say no point.
(c) Camry transmission. Camry suspension shift smoothly and reliably and quickly. YOu won't even feel it shift. In no way is Accord's automatic better than Camrys. As reliable, yes, as good, no. Honda is never known for making good automatics. That has been the complaint by critics and consumer alike for decades. 1 point for Camry.
(d) Camry safety. Crash test in Camry's favor. As well as injury and death rate a siginficantly lower for the Camry. 1 point for Camry.
That's 3 points already. I won't go into the better Toyota warranty, or the full size spare tire, better sound system....
Enough already. As you can see, both sides have clear advantage in some area over the other. That's why people choose between them.
Oh, as for fleet sale. Toyota has been doing fleet sale about 8-12% (10%), that's by Toyota's sales chief. Honda does about 4%.
Now, use car market is 3 times the new car market size. 10% Camry fleet sale = 10%/3 = 3.3% used car market. 4% Accord fleet sale = 4%/3 = 1.3% used car market. This is a rough estimate, but you can see how it in the ball park.
Anyway. It's ok, that you try to measure how good the car is by YOUR standard. And it's also good that I measure the car by MY standard. But that's doesn't mean a thing out there when millions of people are buying.
Why do so many people choose Camry over Accord? Only the buyers themselves know. I can see it, because I think the Camry makes a better family car. But I understand those who prefer to trade off some comfort for sportiness will be buying the Accord. That's fine with me too. There are in my mind plenty of reason to choose either one.
People WILL buy what they like. Since Camry and Accord are arch rivales, people looks into them both. People choose Camry for good reasons, and people choose Accord also for good reasons. I don't doubt them, I have my own preference. If everyone was like me, no one would be buying the Accord, and if everyone was like you, no one would be buying the Camry. Luckly, the world is little more diversified that that.
#115 of 2813 re:milindc
Sep 20, 2000 (9:17 pm)
You said to keep preferences out of the equation, but that's quite hard because it influence many aspects when comparing the cars.
- Better Suspension (Double Wishbone Fully
5)Better Suspension setup...
--> perhaps if your preferences is a sporty ride,but if you prefer smooth ride, Camry's suspension is better. So how can you said which suspension is better without letting your preferences interferes with it?
You seemed to enjoy the sporty ride and handling, thus making the Accord's suspension better (in your opinion), while other may think the Accord's suspension more bumpy (compared to Camry's) and think its suspension as inferior than that of the camry.
Thats just one example to consider.
#116 of 2813 agree with liufei
Sep 20, 2000 (9:20 pm)
milindc. I won't post on this subject any longer. It's been debated to death, and it's not going to change the way people choose their cars.
Camry and Accord both has its advantages. And buying a car is all about preference. Even the numbers that we can account for are just a part of it.
You can't put a $ or a # to something such as quietness. To sports drivers, it's worth nothing, infact, some people are turned out by a loud revving engine. Yet, to others, it's worth all the world when their baby sleeps peacefully in the back.
Let people choose, and respect their choice. Who are you to say their choice is wrong when they feel that they would be better off owning a Camry (or Accord).
#117 of 2813 re:wenyue
Sep 20, 2000 (9:31 pm)
geeze....If i would've known you gonna post
extensive info like that, I wouldn't have bother to write mine.
But yes, In my opinion, it would be hard to take out your preferences from the picture, as well as trying to rate abstract factor such as quietness,etc
Sep 20, 2000 (9:54 pm)
The only advantage a Camry may have over the Accord is its interior noise. I admit the Camry I test drove was a little bit quieter, I felt more isolated in other words. But when asking the Camry for some power to pass, or get on the freeway, forget it, the Camry is a slug. The Accord wins the Acceleration round hands down. I like to drive my cars not sleep in them. As for the latest sales figures, the 2000 Taurus is number 2 and moving up fast on the Camry. May claim number 1 by this time next year. Honda has never much really cared about sales numbers, they want repeat buyers and to gain and hold market share. Toyota is probably 3x or more, the size of Honda as far as total world sales. Toyota and Honda are the only 2 Japanese owned car compainies left. I am starting to believe Honda will make it through all these mergers. I have read they are a quite solid finiancially and have some good products coming out in the next 5 years. A truck and a Honda SUV are right around the corner..
Sep 20, 2000 (10:18 pm)
I wonder then why Civic LX sells so well. It's even more under powered. When compared to Sentra, Protege, Corolla, Focus, it's even more of a slug. Yet it's the best seller for compact cars.
It's funny how both Camry 4 cylinder and Civic LX 4 cylinder, both being underpowered by your standard, are the best sellers in their segment.
Taurus is doing very well. It's value is undeniable. You can have a fully loaded Taurus for FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR less than either Camry or Accord. And if you are leasing a car, where reliability is a none issue, it makes an excellent choice.
Toyota car operation is about 2x that of Honda's. Honda has specialized in engine sector, also making motorcycle and power tools. Toyota is far more diversified, reaching into banking, housing, telecommunciation. Toyota is the more stable and fiancially wealthy company by far (wealthest automaker in the world).
We shall see if HOnda survive as an independent company in the next few years. Honda's profit is taking a beating due to poor exchange rates ( down 25% total last year and this year). So Honda needs to shore up it's defenses at this time of fiancial weakness. If they can survive the next few years, they have a good chance of staying independent.
Sep 21, 2000 (2:38 am)
Honda is overtaking Daimler-Chrysler's position in Canada as one of the top 3 car manufacturers. I think they've alread overtaken them.
ADG: GTI rules, I don't know why, but I have a thing for the Honda's...I feel more "at home" in them. I enjoyed my drives in a Prelude SH just as much as I would a GTI, My preferences just stick towards the Prelude although the GTI did feel faster. I hate the long gears in the Prelude though it seriously needs a 6th gear.
#121 of 2813 Camry vs. Accord
Sep 21, 2000 (5:00 am)
1. Accords are always sold cheaper than Camries, which partially explains the so called 'resale';
2. Although Camries are more expensive, people are still chosing Camries over Accords;
3. Accords are in high demand, so are Camries, and Camries' market value is still higher;
4. Did you guys find that 2001 Civics have MacPherson design instead of double-wishbone, which Honda funs raved about? Please tell us why;
5. Accord just remind us Civic image. Period.
Sep 21, 2000 (2:24 pm)
you said "Civic had less "PEAK" numbers than
others, but very good power across the rpm band."
Actually, the Civic has very little power in the low and mid rpm band. And are slower than Camry with the corresponding transmission. Only the Civic EX can keep up with the Camry, if you rev it into high rpm and the VTEC kicks in, but it's still low on power in the lower rpm band. And the DX along with the best selling LX civic engine are both slower than Camry 4 cyclinder. But power isn't the only thing people look for, that's why Camry and Civic are best seller in their class.
As for the suspension. I agree, Accord's suspension is more sophisticated. A better suspension for sports cars. Unfortunatly, it also transmitts more noises and also in the case of the Accord, make the ride more stiff and bumpy. A suspension is only as good as the result it gives.
So again, it comes down to preference. If you want a semi-sporty car, and don't mind sacrificing quiet and soft ride for it, than Accord's suspension will serve you better. But if you want the car to give a really quiet and soft ride, for the family, and is willing to sacrifice sportiness for it, than Camry's suspension will clearly be the better one.
Camry is designed as a family car, to excell as a family car. Not a sports car. You wouldn't be happy with it, if you were looking for a sporty ride. But than again, one would be pretty ticked off driving an Accord if you were expecting a soft/quiet ride. I wouldn't be happy in the Accord, and you wouldn't be happy in a Camry. Well, to each his own.
Again, we come back to these 2 cars as being the leader among the midsize car. And both are great car (depends on your preference), buy what you like.
Sep 21, 2000 (7:55 pm)
What exactly ur first point about ??? It's contardictory ??
People ofcourse will choose camry over accord & vice versa..it's their preferrence. I'm here to talk about practical facts...
Camry & Accord sales are VERY CLOSE to individual buyer, let's not say that more buyers are choosing camry etc. It's almost the same.
Every year more than 800,000 buyers are choosing
There can't be a comparision of 1.6, 1.7 Liter engine with 2.2 Litre. Let's not comp Civic with camry. RPM Band: I was atlking about others in econo cars.
Suspension on 2001 Civic is a step backwards.
It's a compromise to improve interior space...
I didn't likeit, that's the reason many of my friends got 2000 Civic. New Civic also rides softer than previous.
"Independent" suspension is not necesary only for sporty cars, it wil improve ride quality in any car.
There are many points these two cars share
1)Reliability 2)Resale 3)Build Quality
It's just surprising how much difference is there
in build quality of other manufacturers.
Honda/Toyota are way ahead of others in this matter....