Last post on Jan 07, 2012 at 5:27 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#6253 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [sharpwitz]
Sep 04, 2004 (12:57 pm)
I generally appreciate constructive criticism and tend to give a lot myself, but in this case I'm going to send you back to the drawing (or thinkng) board more than Acura.
(1) There are two AC plugs in my TL, no cigarette lighters. I keep my Bluetooth cell phone plugged into the center armrest and it's always charged and available. So what are you talking about?
(2) Folding rear seats - "Beemer can do it, why can't we?". Listen, I seriously considered a $50k 2004 530i 6-speed before going with the $33k TL 6-speed w/ nav. You want to list how many things the BMW doesn't have as standard equipment that the TL does? Like xenons ($800 BMW option), a standard stereo that is better than BMW's $1,800 "premium sound package", a sport suspension and Brembo brakes standard on the 6-speed (vs. BMW's $3,300 sport package), heated seats and mirrors (vs. BMW's $750 cold weather package), XM radio standard (vs. BMW's $575 Sirius), Bluetooth phone link standard (vs. BMW's - oops, nothing.), and the best damn navigation system in the business (vs. BMW's $1,800 small screen wannabe). Oh, and the fold down rear seats you are clammoring for, those are a $475 option on the 530i.
(3) I still have some good 8-tracks, and I can't find anywhere to play them. Seriously, the DVD system in the Acura, according to my audiophile friends, is about as good as it gets in a car. Sounds like you are a bit gizmo crazed.
(4) Side mirror blinking lights. Not a big deal in my book.
(5) Rear turning light colors. Also not a big deal in my book. I may be old enough to remember 8 tracks, but I never plowed into anybody's rear end because they had the wrong color brake /turning lights.
(6) Metal door handles. You're kidding, right? The TL door handles are similar to BMW's 3 series. Oh, I forgot, it's only the rear folding seats you like from BMW.
(7) Rear motion detectors for $5-10? Now that's a great deal. And perhaps you could get a job at BMW showing them how to build hinges in their rear seats for less than $475. Or heated seats for less than $750.
(8) Fog lights. Duh, the TL has fog lights. Not that I use them much with the STADARD Xenon lights but they are there. I'm guessing that you missed them because they are integrated into the headlight cluster. Or because you never actually drove a TL.
(9) Lexus has a "rear window shade thing". And they drive like a Toyota.
(10) Adaptive cruise control? Better yet, a standard chauffer that drives the frigging car for you.
(11) "Driver assistance technology to alarm sleeped drivers..". See #10, you don't need that with the standard chauffer.
Seriously, the $33.3k I paid for my TL 6-speed Navigation with HPT package is considerably LESS in inflation adjusted dollars than the $21k I paid in 1994 for a 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed. And the only option the Maximan had was a $1,000 set of ABS brakes. No sunroof, leather, CD (or 8 track), or rear fold down seats.
The 2004 TL is by no means a perfect car. But I would argue that it's probably the very best value for a mid-size sport sedan out there. And kudos to Acura for not nickle and diming buyers for every bloody option. I am considering upgrading to a 545i 6-speed (or even M5) down the road, but would have to give up some of the TL's features in the process. Even the bloody $85k AMG E55 I drove last week doesn't have most of the things on your shopping list. Oh, and it's "parktronic" system is a nice $1,050 option. So you can also try going over there to market your $5-$10 knock-off.
If you are actually car shopping, I think you need to figure out what is important to you and stop fantasizing about getting something for nothing. Reminds me of the discussions I had when I owned a Honda S2000 as a fun car. Some "shoppers" like you compained about the weak stereo. On a $32k SPORTS CAR that in every performance catagory stacks up with the $60k Porsche Boxster S.
#6254 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [sharpwitz]
Sep 04, 2004 (2:52 pm)
The TL with Nav for about $33.5k is a lot of car and gizmos for the money, especially when you compare it with BMW and MB. If you want to talk about a "wish list", I hope the TL could come with a standard rear entertainment unit (DVD and X-box player) for my 11 year old kid for $200, but I know I am only dreaming
#6255 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [habitat1]
Sep 04, 2004 (3:00 pm)
I'm not here to bash the TL. I'm planning to buy one next month. It's been a year since I've test driven the TL and I forgot that it had AC plug(s).
I am willing to pay more for the TL if it added more features. Rear fold downs would be worth the $475. I still feel MP3 capable player is a must. I would put that ahead of DVD-A. If you're going to put DVD-A in a car, you better have amazing speakers in the car (which the TL does not have - but still decent compared to cars in its class).
Motion detectors go for $50-100 at any auto stereo shop (including labor).
I thought earlier posts mentioned that fog lights were no longer available in the the new TL. Kudos that TL does have it.
Thanks for the response. The TL is a great value.
#6256 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [habitat1]
Sep 04, 2004 (4:28 pm)
Many valid points there but your pro-TL mindset may go a bit far at the same time.
TSX actually has folding rear seat and blinking mirror lights. Whether it's a big deal depends on each person's needs, but one can easily argue if TSX does it why not TL.
Rear window sun shade is indeed nice, regardless of it's being coupled with a Toyota ride or a Honda ride (and who's to judge one is necessarily better than the other; just preference only). Plus it's not only Lexus who has it.
For a $30K car TL has quite a package but it does not have some of the common features seen on other lux lines either. Some of the common luxy feature missing on TL are rain sensing wipers, auto lights-on, and one-touch all windows. But I am sure it's not a big deal to many TL lovers.
It does have some unique ones that others don't. DVD-A is one but is not a big deal to me as there're not too many of those. BT is nice if you phone often in the car and opt for those more $$ phones. A feature I actually like on TL that I don't hear mentioned often is setting driver's seat position b4 you enter the car.
I mean TL has some goodies that you don't find even on some much more $$ cars, but it also lacks some common ones too. So it's a good value but at the same time it does not have all the 'stuff', even some common ones, in a package as many tend to conclude either.
#6257 of 9045 05 to get Michelin?
Sep 04, 2004 (9:41 pm)
I heard on the grapevine:
Quote (Originally Posted by GeoffS):
"New ones are definitely coming. My TL is here today and I'm picking it up Tueday but they have to give me the 17's until the A-spec rims are finalized. According to my sales guy it had something to do w sizing. I think the appearance is supposed to be basically the same. Also, as many probably know, the EL42's are out of there and the Pilot Sport A/S's are the norm..."
Anyone knows for sure if the 05 TL will come with Michelin Pilot Sport tires?
#6258 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [igiban]
Sep 05, 2004 (1:40 am)
I guess my point (excessivley made) was that "stuff" isn't really what drove me to buy the 2004 TL.
I have the 6-speed with HPT package. Retained FWD notwithstanding, it is a vast improvement over the previous TL-S in the "driving" department, which never would have been on my shopping list. Prior to test driving the TL 6-speed, I was pretty convinced my next sedan was going to be an underpowered 530i or a healthily priced 545i. The 330i was just a bit too small. The G35 was too unrefined in both the engine and interior department. That is also why I make the distinction with Lexus/Toyota. Lexus, for all of their gizmos and interior quality, has put almost no engineering effort into improved driving dynamics over what you would get in a Camry or Avalon. in other words, Lexus has perfected the Buick.
So, on my wish list for the TL would have been rear wheel drive and an extra 1,000 rpm on the redline. The most likely thing to keep me from buying the new M5 when it comes out next year is the apparant lack of a true manual transmission, to go along with its 8,300 rpm V10. Rumor is that a 7-speed SMG will be the only transmission offered. So you can see that my priorities are a bit more to first getting a "drivers car" and then worrying about the extra gizmo's and goodies. But I guess I need to recognize that many TL owners and shoppers put those things first.
#6259 of 9045 Re: TL needs more improvement [habitat1]
Sep 05, 2004 (10:06 am)
For sure TL does strike a decent balance among perfromance, luxury, and $$. One can certainly ask for more on either P or L, but then what's RL gonna do and be able charge another $10K? In the mean time, people who want more P can go to B330 or G35, depending room and budget requirement, and others who care more on L may want to go to Lexus instead.
#6260 of 9045 Bottom Line on the automatic transmission problems?
Sep 05, 2004 (12:02 pm)
I am considering buying TL with AT. My only concern is the AT recalls on the TL's for 2002, 2003 and 2004. Either Honda cannot solve the cause of the problem, or they figure it is cheaper to recall. Either way, how much of a problem is it? Is it worth living with it?
#6261 of 9045 deciding to buy
Sep 05, 2004 (2:12 pm)
i"m about to purchace a used 2004TL with nav, all factory body side, front,&rearskirts, factory performance tires and painted wheels. 2000 miles, perfect condition $31,000.00. but con cerned about all negative press in tl forums. please respond.
#6262 of 9045 "Features"
Sep 05, 2004 (5:52 pm)
Couldn't care less about bluetooth (don't/won't carry a cell phone) or memory seat settings (more complexity -- wasted 10 minutes trying to figure out how to override it in a loaner). The nav is fun to watch when you're driving along -- but $2K? But the features that really matter, this car has: great, revvy 270 HP engine, 6 seconds 0-60, slick short throw 6 speed transmission, quiet and comfortable interior - great distance car, build and materials quality, firm but compliant suspension, great audio, and, yes, front wheel drive. I've admired FWD since the original Mini destroyed RWD cars with much greater power in the 60's Monte Carlo rallies. Watch any RWD BMW or Mercedes contend with a light snow fall or heavy rain for a repeat perfomance.