Last post on Jan 07, 2012 at 6:27 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#6132 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [igiban]
Jul 13, 2004 (3:52 pm)
Sorry, I can dispute Lexus being a notch better than Acura. I'm looking at the Consumer Reports list of "How Automakers Stack Up" listing brands by number of problems per 100 vehicles for three year old cars. Acura is #1 with 21, Toyota and Lexus tied for second/third with 25, Honda 4th with 32...Cadillac is last with 82. But let's not split hairs on reliability. Acura and Lexus (and Honda and Toyota) are all very good.
And my comment regarding the Camry like ES330 wasn't intended to be disparaging of the Toyota nameplate. I'm not "brand" motivated by either Lexus or Acura. In fact, I'll claim right now that the "Honda" S2000 is the most technologically advanced, best built car by Honda/Acura or Toytoa/Lexus. I didn't give a hoot that it was labeled a Honda when I made my purchase decision, and I wouldn't have cared if the TL was made by Honda. My issue with the ES330 is more with the fact that Lexus has taken driving boredom to perfection. I couldn't bring myself to buy a Toyota Camry in 1995 (instead of a Maxima SE) not because it wasn't as reliable as a Stanley crescent wrench, but because it just lacked any remote hint of the road feel or handling dynamics. And, for a lot of the driving public, that's just fine.
For the record, the Lexus GX470 is one of the leading candidates for our SUV replacement. So I'm not anti-Lexus by any means. But I'm not sure what your agenda is relative to the TL. If you enjoy the way an ES330 drives, or a fan of the looks of a Jaguar S type, that's your business. But I don't think you are going to convince too many TL buyers that we should share those opinions.
P.S. I got the charcoal/aluminum interior. No fake wood worries here.
#6133 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL
Jul 13, 2004 (5:48 pm)
Before I purchased my non-nav auto, Desert Mist I tried the Lexus ES330, Infiniti I35 and Infiniti G35. The Lexus definitely has a quiet and smooth ride but then I read about all the tranny problems they have been having with the 300-330 cars since 2002. In 2003 the company even sent letters to all 2002-2003 owners telling them that if they experienced the problem they could take their vehicle in and have the chip reset to factory condition. Seems that isn't helping a lot of people.
Now, I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm not spending over $30k on a car that may or may not have a bad tranny problem that can't be fixed by the manufacturers patch. Bye, Bye Lexus.
Infiniti's I35 was sporty enough but looked a little old ladyish and lacked many of the features the TL provides. Plus, it is being discontinued. The G35 was definitely sporty enough but the interior looked awful. If they redesign the interior they may have a great automobile. So, bye bye Infiniti.
That left only Acura TL. I'm not one who needs a brand name on my car. I just want a reliable car that is solidly built for a reasonable price. TL delivered all that and more. I plan to keep on enjoying it for years to come.
#6134 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [jrkelly]
Jul 13, 2004 (6:40 pm)
If tranny was what you worried about, be prepared... Lexus had problem with their trannies in the software -> update the code, you are fine. TL, 2004 nontheless, has problem in the hardware, just wait for the tranny recall letter...
not to say TL ain't good. Will take Honda/Toyota products any day for peace of mind. I have start to form an impression(thru various sources, but only personal, mind you), that while both of them are in the same level in turns of reliability (quality control), Honda seems tend to use cheaper parts comparatively, and it shows up years down the road.
No flame intended, just an exchange of opinion or impression.
#6135 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [ctl]
Jul 13, 2004 (8:32 pm)
I thought that the recall was only for 2003 and early 2004 models. My car wasn't made until 06/04. I've only had it a few weeks. I think it might be safe from the recall. At least I hope so!!
#6136 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [habitat1]
Jul 13, 2004 (10:23 pm)
I have not accessed to the CR report. Mine is based on well published JDP reports. Year after year Lexus is head and shoulder above the rest, but Honda/Acura has decent showing too.
Your earlier comments sure made you sound more 'brand-motivated' than you really are. Why'd you need to care about Lexus vs. Toyota or Ford vs. Jag. Why don't you just comment on Lexus or Jaguar on their own right? Jaguar actually had quite a nice showing on 2004's JDP IQS (ranked higher than Honda/Acura). Surprise right?
As I said I think TL covers many grounds well in this price range, and while it may not be the best on any of them, it's close on just about all of them -- a feat on its own right.
#6137 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [ctl]
Jul 14, 2004 (1:37 pm)
CTL - I just called the Acura 800 number and luckily my new TL is not under the recall. Guess I lucked out. Now if I could just get Verizon to get with the Bluetooth technology all would be perfect.
#6138 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [igiban]
Jul 14, 2004 (3:34 pm)
For what it's worth, I tend to put JDP IQS results pretty low on the relevancy list when it comes to true long term reliablity. Don't get me wrong, no one (me included) wants hassles in the first 90 days of ownership. But if I'm not mistaken, Cadillac ranked very high by JDP and came in dead last on Consumer Reports look at 3-year reliability.
Even the Lexus GX470 has had quite a few initial bugs with transmission clunks, etc. But I'm under the impression that they are fixing them and I would sure be more confident in a Lexus lasting 100k+ miles without major problems than I would in a Cadillac Escalade.
Again, not to repeat, but the ES330 and Toyota Camry are both very nice cars in their respective segments, they just don't ofer any driving excitement whatsoever for me. Regarding the Jaguar/Ford comment, I guess that was a little snobbish. It's just sad to think that in order for Jaguar to improve correct their finicky, unreliable reputation, they sold out to Ford. Kind of like a pro athlete going to Richard Simmons to help him get in better shape. BMW has done an admirable job of improving product quality on their own (5-series still holds Consumer Reports record for highest rating ever given). And they haven't lost what makes BMW cars a real pleasure to drive in the process.
Again, I have to ask, do you really find the ES330 and Jaguar S or X type to your driving tastes? If so, perhaps we are just stuck trying to debate a Venus vs. Mars dilemma. When I spend $30k, $40k, or $50k+ on a car, I'd prefer to have something that is a crisp handling, good road feel, fun to drive car. I know many others looking for the next cure for insomnia. I'm just not one of them.
#6139 of 9045 Re: Looking to buy a TL [habitat1]
Jul 14, 2004 (4:31 pm)
Three years ago neither Jag nor Cad ranked high on even IQS, so the fact that they jumped on IQS may signal overall quality improvement? Only time can tell. That said, nowadays very few cars (even the bottom ones) have serious powertrain problems in first 90 days so IQS may reflect more of the workmanship issues such as rattles and squeaks, which happen to plaque TL a bit. Longer term wise, Honda's engine is among the best.
Audi to VM, Volvo and Jag to Ford, Chrys to MB, Nissan to.... who knows. Dog eat dog world and hard to tell it's a lift or drag sometimes. There're maybe good reasons why Toyota, Honda, and BMW are not messing with all that.
On the rides of ES vs. TL it's almost like comparing looks. I don't think there's a rule that says which one is supposed to be better or worse. It's a matter of preference. Lexus went extra miles to make cars so smooth and quiet that steering wheel does not feel any vibration when idle, so much so that with its quietness very often you wonder if the engine is still turned on. To some, that's amazing and luxurious, and worth every penny. To others, it's just plain boring. As to road feel, I'd like that at times too (on flat road please). But don't give me too much of that over potholes. Now if Lexus can make pothole felt like flat surface, that'd be even more amazing, or, boring as well, I presume.
Jul 14, 2004 (4:54 pm)
I don't mind smoothness and quietness per se regardless of the sportiness of the car. I do find the (auto version) of the TL has a somewhat rough idle. And if it had the solidity and squeak-free interior from a lexus, it would add even more to its driving pleasure. As for looks, there is no comparison. I've had the TL for over a month now, and I still find myself just standing around admiring the styling. The shape of the hood, the character lines, the fender flares, the way the wheels are pushed way out to the corners, etc., etc, -- viewed in person, the TL rocks. On the other hand, I don't find any car in the whole Toyota/Lexus lineup compelling to look at (in a positive way) from a styling perspective.
I've taken a double-take on cars such as the SC430, but only because it's so ugly.
#6141 of 9045 tlong's Questions in Post 6116
Jul 14, 2004 (7:33 pm)
Sorry for the late response - I was on vacation. Here's my take on your questons about the 1998 A4 versus the 2004 TL:
- Yes, the A4 with a manual is quicker to 20 or 30 MPH than the TL with an automatic.
- The A4 is slightly smoother since it has no torque steer. The is mild with the TL, not a problem.
- The TL audio is definitely better.
Other things I like about the TL: larger size, better crash test results, quicker acceleration (other than from a standing start).