Last post on Jan 07, 2012 at 5:27 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#6034 of 9045 markcincinnati, salbaby
Jun 18, 2004 (3:37 pm)
Would I gain any points with you if I mentioned that I have never, ever owned an automatic. Neither has my wife. And we are both over 45. My 6 year old daughter mastered the 1-2 shift from the passenger side of my S2000 before I traded it a few weeks ago for the TL 6-speed.
You make some good points, but I have to say that I subjectively disagree with you regarding AWD replacing RWD as MY setup of choice for a sport sedan or sports car. I am already displeased that so many so called sports cars weigh as much or more than my 1995 Nissan Maxima. The Audi TT Quatro is juat a joke (and pig) compared to my former S2000. Whether the AWD system adds 100, 200 or 300 lbs to the weight of the car, it's only justification in my opinion is if you want to drive in inclement weather. Mercedes has 4-matic on just about every model. AMG doesn't have it on any models. Same with BMW vs. Motorsport.
So adding weight to the car is my enemy, unless it provides a significant benefit. If I wanted my sport sedan to mush through Ohio or Penssylvania winters, I might consider taking a 330ix over a 330i. But if I wanted a real sport coupe, there is no way I would ever take the bloated 3,825+ lb S4 over the nimble 3,400 lb M3 and I have driven both. There are other opinions out there, but I'm just giving you mine.
I bit my tongue once, then twice then three times. Now you forced me to speak up. I respect that some folks out there may want to think a Subaru is a poor man's M5 and that Subaru is on the verge of taking Formula 1 by storm. But at least for me, a Subaru is a Subaru. And it could go from 0-100 in under 5 seconds, but I'd have to be both poor and blind to get into one. And then I wouldn't be allowed to drive anyway. There must be another forum you can sneak your Subaru plugs in that would be more receptive than an Acura forum, no??
#6035 of 9045 Hello folks?
Jun 18, 2004 (4:03 pm)
Could we keep in mind that this is a discussion about the Acura TL, not the finer points of which wheel drive is on which vehicle for which reason?
Try the News & Views board for those conversations - there are some really good discussions going on over there about these very things.
#6036 of 9045 Re: markcincinnati, salbaby [habitat1 #6034]
Jun 18, 2004 (4:43 pm)
I happen to like the TL and the 05 Subs. The TL's electronics are the best in the business not to mention the reliability. SH-AWD would make the TL an even better car.
But we are entitle to our opinions... Right? I'm glad the traded in your S2000 for the TL. The TL is at least a more masculine car. I for one wouldn't be caught dead in a S2000 or any other car that girls call "cute".
Jun 18, 2004 (7:50 pm)
Give me a Miata, S2000 (which I've never seen piloted by a female), any of the so-called "chick cars". If they are fun to drive, I don't care what people think.
Umm.. kind of hard to think of the TL as masculine.... I just don't see it.
#6038 of 9045 Re: Not me.. [kyfdx #6037]
Jun 18, 2004 (8:10 pm)
"Fun to drive" Subarus fall into that category right, any auto enthusiasts knows that. When an Forester XT smokes a 03 V6 Accord in AutoX, it makes you think. Right?
TL is marketed as masculine, "aggressive styling, 270 hp" etc... No soft line like Audis.
I am considering a TL and 05 Legacy GT and like what the people here post about the TL.
Jun 19, 2004 (4:09 am)
Re-reading my post, I was a little harsh on Subaru. And my in-laws living in Maine who has never owned anything but Subarus and Saabs since 1990, swear by their reliability (even though they've gone through at least 3 during my tenure with a Maxima).
My point was that I doubt most buyers - you may be the exception - stay awake at night trying to decide between a Subaru Legacy and an Acura TL. And, I suspect, most TL buyers aren't too self conscious about their masculinity (or femininity, as the case may be). I didn't get hung up on that 25 years ago, I'm sure not about to now. But, hey, it's your money.
P.S. Being open minded, I read Edmunds' review of the 2005 Legacy. It gave it good marks for an improved interior, suggesting that you may forget that your not in a VW (apparantly the category leader). Fortunately, they didn't go so far as to compare it to VW's upscale sibling, Audi, or you'd be back to square one.
#6040 of 9045 Re: markcincinnati, salbaby [habitat1 #6034]
Jun 19, 2004 (8:18 am)
You don't need to make any points with me, but it is at least good to know that there are those who do like stick shifts.
And with respect to AWD ranting, I do apologize for my passion on the issue. The fact -- not opinion or rant -- is that Acrua, like all other Premium Brands(and there is or will be a trickle down -- and that is also fact) will be offering model wide AWD as either standard or optional is NOT because they think it will in any way be a negative, they think the buying public wants it, they think they need it to compete, they think it will make money and they know it is an engineering solution to the issues that have started confronting FWD (particularly) cars as horsepower and torque keep climbing skyward.
Not, YET, an Acura owner, I applaud Acura for taking the step, first with the new RL of SH AWD being standard and next for apparently moving to add SH AWD to the TL (sooner rather than later). Acura, first with the new TL then with the upcoming RL then with the upcoming TL has once again started coming on strong in response to both the market and technology. BTW, in my garage, currently, are two Audis, both coming off lease in less than a year (2003 TT 225HP coupe and 2003 allroad -- both are stick shifts).
And, to prevent anyone from wading backwards through posts, both my wife and I put the TL as #1 (with an asterisk) on our test drive lists, in that we liked, checked that, loved, everything about the TL except the torque steer. SH AWD will banish that and probably, knowing Acura increase the performance (and if they do it "right", even the economy -- or at least the economy hit will be 2%).
The Acura and Audi A6 threads are so engaging right now because the posters are so passionate and the products (not even out yet) are so highly anticipated. Most of what I, for one, say are strong opinions, some are just "the facts." I'll try to be clearer FNO.
#6041 of 9045 markcincinnati
Jun 19, 2004 (1:20 pm)
I will be interested in driving the RL SH-AWD when it arrives. I would never own one, mind you, since it will only come with an automatic. Someone else made a good point that the SH-AWD system is very heavily front wheel biased in its standard torque split (90/10, 80/20 or somethng like that). It will be interesting to see if it will really eliminate torque steer and how it feels in spirited driving.
FWIW, I just had another friend from Pittsburgh trade his 2000 E430 sport for a 545i 6-speed with the active sport suspension. I'm being promised a drive when I see him in a few weeks. He claims that the handling is better than any other sedan on the market, including the new E55 and all Audi offerings.
There clearly are a variety of opinions out there.
#6042 of 9045 Check out new Automobile magazine
Jun 20, 2004 (6:16 am)
. . .for a review (comparo) of several "contendas" for the mid-sized crown. The 5 series active suspension is indeed a cool technology. Don't count SH AWD (on either Acura) out yet, however. And, GULP, don't discount any car auto or manual until you have put it through its paces (and I can hardly believe I wrote that).
The advances in automatics (and next gen autos) are making the performance argument weaker all the time (the fun argument is another subject as is the "control" agument). New 7speed autos are "just around the corner" -- which also makes me convinced that Acura/Honda will "quickly" bring their auto equipped cars to 6spd offerings.
Like you, however, I plan to fight for stick shifts even if I am a loney voice screaming in the wilderness (manual transmissions forever!)
Jun 20, 2004 (10:04 am)
I too prefer manual transmissions. Stick shifts are fun, and fun is worth paying for. The best way to argue for retention of manual transmissions in any carmaker's lineup is to buy one. I plan on buying a 6spd Acura TL sometime this summer. I think (amongst all the other reasons for choosing this car) that it will be a fun ride.