Last post on Jan 07, 2012 at 5:27 PM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Sedan
#3497 of 9045 BMw, Benz and Acura:
Oct 14, 2003 (7:01 am)
I;m not doubting that BMW and Menz make nice cars but Benz has so many reliability problems I would be scared to buy a Benz. BMW's is alright but I probably wouldn't buy one.
As far as engines Honda makes some of the best engines out there. Never doubt Honda in the engine department.
As far as purchase price is concerned I would wait a year to buy the TL(if you are interested in it) because 1st year cars always have bugs to work out(rattles mainly.) Also, I have heard on this board the TL went for sticker in 1998-1999 when it first came out. In 2001 you could probably buy a TL for 600 dollars over invoice. I think waiting until demand goes down for the TL would be a smart thing to do if you want a resaonable price on one.
Oct 14, 2003 (7:24 am)
This is worth an entire forum by itself - but to try to sum it up :
FWD is more compact giving more room inside the car and trunk, better gas mileage and better traction with more weight over the driving wheels.
RWD is more balanced in general, but weighs more overall, and the drive train takes up a lot of space.
Because of the weight in the front of the FWD car, it will tend to understeer more than a RWD car when driven hard. That means it will want to go straight as you are turning. RWD cars tend to over-steer, where it turns farther than you want.
Please note - In normal driving you will never notice any of this, only when pushing hard.
FWD cars also can exhibit "torque steer" where the car tends to pull to one side when accellerating heavily. Better engineered cars like the Acura have eliminated most if not all of this.
Oct 14, 2003 (7:26 am)
"I read on here that the knock on the TL is that itís front wheel drive verses rear wheel drive."
Only the "enthusiasts" who plan on driving their vehicles like a race car on our public roads should have any concern about front vs. rear drive. Rear wheel drive cars offer better overall performance when driven at their limits. It's a combination of the driving wheels also being used to control the direction of the vehicle, and the mechanics of pushing vs. pulling a car through a turn. Weight balance also is a factor. Torque-steer, where the front wheels pull to right during hard acceleration, doesn't appear to be much of a factor with Acuras. Nissans are notorious for ripping the steering wheel out of your hand if you're not careful.
If you don't plan on pushing your car to it's limits, you shouldn't worry about it.
#3500 of 9045 2004 TL Invoice $30.3K non/Navi - w/Navi $32.1K
Oct 14, 2003 (8:29 am)
For those people hoping for a great deal on the TL...here are the invoice prices. This was posted on the web today....thanks Myrddin157
$29,755 + $545 Destination = $30,300 Non-Navi
Navi adds another $1,821 = $32,121 With Navi
Oct 14, 2003 (9:31 am)
Jaydoll - I fail to see how that changes anything. If the dealer is asking a mark-up on the car (putting it out of a person's range), they shouldn't buy it. If anything, the mark-up you've described just illustrates once more that invoice and MSRP mean nothing.
Talon - Muspod is just going by the numbers. I'm not certain he really understands what they mean and which ones are important.
Oct 14, 2003 (10:14 am)
"Well, guess what? The dealer called back today after 4 days and wanted to offer a lower price and renegotiate after low balling my trade and only offering to knock off shipping when I was originally in the showroom, and after stating it was his final offer"
I hate the way this forum is setup. Everytime I want to reply to a post written like 10-15 posts ago, I have to quote what the guy said.
Anyway, now that the invoice prices are out, how much lower did the dealer offer the car at? I'm very curious b/c my dealer is not budging at all Knocking shipping off is not bad. That's $545, or something like that.)
Hey guys, what about the "holdback". Looks like the cars are flying off the lot as soon as they come in. Shouldn't we negotiate the dealer holdback off the price since the cars are not staying on the lot for 3 months!!
Come on, what do people think??
#3503 of 9045 My Impressions Thus Far for Bartalk2
Oct 14, 2003 (10:18 am)
I've had the car a week...
1. Almost as quiet inside as my father's LS430.
2. Handling is awesome for a front driver -- and I do require FWD since I have to get to work when it snows!
3. The interior ergonomics are superb, as are the interior materials.
4. The sound system is the best factory system I've ever heard. Will I rush out and buy DVD-Audios? Probably not.
5. The engine and tranny are silky smooth. Keep in mind I'm moving up from a 3.8L supercharged GM product, so my point-of-reference may be skewed!
6. Nobody has a bluetooth carphone for CDMA cell networks, so I'm out of luck for now unless I change carriers.
7. Yeah, I paid MSRP, but I still based my decision on the perceived value, and I have no buyer's regret!
8. For all of the naysayers on FWD, go post somewhere else. I'm tired of your whining.
#3504 of 9045 JD power and Reliability index
Oct 14, 2003 (10:28 am)
I have mention the JD power is based on the survey card sent by dealers which could be tricked by offering free stuff from dealership like free oil change or something. They survey reliability in the first 3 and 12 months by survey the chain autoshop and dealer service dept. In theory this shold cover all but problem came from how they decide the criteria on each category. They never release the formula and most customers don't trust the number. It does give dealer another source to promote their cars and trucks. As to the recent disappoint reliability index of BMW and MB, it's not because they are getting worse but the standard raised. Most of us will use CR's report and they keep raise the bar every other year. Compare to 10 years ago, the average number of problem per 100 cars is 150, last year is 100 per 100 cars. So if BMW is 140 problems per 100 cars, it will be rated average 10 years ago, but below average last year. While Japanese car has good record before and keep improved like majority of American products. The problem for those two premium brand is overly comlicate for more features. The more gadgets the higher chance go wrong. Cars today are no longer simple and plane before. Many power train device now are controlled by computer for ultimal performance. It tend to go wrong likely at this complexity. Computer aid design and simulation tool could reduce the real application problem and increase precise fitness in assembly. So overall the gain and lose all depends on how experience the designers are and how well the assembly execution is. This also reflecting the truth that the first year production always has lowest reliability record. The information collected from the first year will help designer to fix minor issue in the 2nd year and complicate one in the refresh 2-3 year later or the next gen. Meantime, all problems due to assembly will be addressed and improved in the later production. MB and BMW reliability issue actually has been resolved by dealer willing to provide loaner while the car in the shop. It's your prefernce and priority to decide which is best for you. It's you to drive the car by use your money. I do agree some members's opinion: get what you really want, not 2nd or 3rd choice just because small price different. Unless you always keep the car less than 3 years, the decision you made wil go with you a long way. Rather spend money on what you like than regret when you see others driving in front you.
Oct 14, 2003 (11:05 am)
How does the 04 TL ride...is it comfortable or rough? Does it feel like a BMW or a Buick
Oct 14, 2003 (11:09 am)
"For all of the naysayers on FWD, go post somewhere else. I'm tired of your whining."
And the funny thing is I'd bet most of the people bashing FWD probably don't have the skills to take full advantage of RWD -- they just like to talk like they do.