Last post on Dec 26, 2012 at 7:05 AM
You are in the Audi A6
What is this discussion about?
Audi A6, Sedan
#706 of 6920 Which would you buy: Audi, BMW, or Lexus?
Jan 18, 2001 (11:30 am)
I'm considering purchase of a used car, and I'm interested in input from Audi owners. I'm considering 1998 cars because I don't like buying new cars considering dealer hassles and depreciation. There are lots of 98s coming
off lease now.
*"Near Luxury" (i.e. nice car for driving with friends and business clients)
*Decent fuel efficiency
*Roomy enough back seat to seat two comfortably
Since my query on "which would YOU buy" is about YOU, feel free to substitute your own criteria. But note that auto handling, power, cornering
are not my primary considerations --- assuming the car performs and handles decently.
Here are the cards I'm considering:
1998 Audi A6
Prices realized dealers' auction: $20k-25k, depending on odometer, condition, and options. Less for non-Quattro if you can find one.
1998 Lexus ES300
Prices realized dealers' auction: $16k-21k, depending on odometer, condition, and options.
1998 or 1997 BMW 528 (with more miles on it than either the A6 or ES300 to keep the price down) Prices realized dealers' auction: $24k-28k, depending on odometer, condition, and options. There are many between $28k and $32k, but as I wish to stay under $30k, I would have to buy one with 40,000 miles plus (maybe even 50k plus) on the odometer (feel free to factor that in to your decision).
I plan to test drive each of these in the coming weeks., but based on the reviews and research on the Internet, I've narrowed the field to these three (but if you have a strong recommend on another I'm willing to listen.) I'm big on reliability and I'm a real debt-hater, so that favors the Lexus it seems. I like the uniqueness of the A6, and without the Quattro it's a lot
of luxury for the price. I like the prestige and looks of the BMW.
So, if you were buying, which would you get?
Jan 18, 2001 (11:45 am)
Believe me, I did NOT elect the Pirelli P6000's -- the car came from Germany on December 21, 2000 with those tires on it!
My previous tires on my 2000 model A6 4.2 were 17" 255x40 series Dunlop SP9000's and after 20K miles and four seasons (in Cincinnati) I felt the 9000's handled better, did not have "cold" weather problems (flat spots until warmed up, etc.) and that they were much quieter especially at speeds under 50MPH.
So, unless I missed the section on the order form where it said "tire brand and model" -- I just took what the factory sent as part of the A6 4.2 2001 sport package. I will keep the Pirellis in the garage and let the dealer have the "almost new" P6000's back when I trade in 27 or 28 months from now.
And thanks to all for their input on my tire rants. As I said, I think the tires (P6000's) are GOOD, not as GOOD as the car deserves, however. At this price point I think we all have a right to some degree of "preference." Too bad we can't order (configure on line) the specific tires, etc. when we order these cars.
Jan 18, 2001 (11:48 am)
I picked up my 2.8 three weeks ago and am very pleased with its exceleration among other things. I live in Los Angeles, and its power is well suited for my needs. I would agree with the other remarks posted here, the 2.8 is not under powered in its own right. And when you considered all the wonderful attention to detail and quality Audi has put into the A6, its a bargain.
Good Luck. Let us know what you decide.
#709 of 6920 BXBY response 2.7T vs. 2.8
Jan 18, 2001 (1:08 pm)
I surprised my wife last spring with a A6 2.7T for her birthday. I test drove the 2.8 and the 2.7T and concluded if I was going to spend this kind of money for a car, why not go all the way. We both simply love the car. She first drove the car from Michigan to Colorado last summer, and then over the holidays we decided to go again to do some skiing. The punchline is we have taken the car on four 22+ hour one-way trips just because it is so much fun to drive. I may be saying the same thing about the 2.8 but no question there is a very noticeable difference in the acceleration. My wife even gave the car a nickname (audette), and treats her like a part of the family. Her favorite comment is "audette needs to stretch her legs" when out on the expressway. Neither of us have ever enjoyed any previous cars to the same extent.
Does anyone have any experience with the a6 avant, or the newer off road capable version with the 2.7T? I need to replace my car and am thinking about getting another audi.
#710 of 6920 To bxby re: 2.8 vs. 2.7T
Jan 18, 2001 (1:41 pm)
I don't have a lot to add to what the others here have already written. As a 2000 2.8 quattro owner, I'm in full agreement that the 2.8 is outstanding in an absolute sense; the 2.7T is even more outstanding. I chose the 2.8 over the 2.7T based purely on economics; when I bought, I could afford a 2.8 quattro equipped the way I wanted it, but an identically-equipped 2.7T was simply out of reach for me. I test drove a 2.8 and was pleasantly surprised to find it more than adequately powered. Would I rather have the neck-snapping acceleration of a 2.7T or 4.2? Sure; after all, I'm a "car guy". But I LOVE my 2.8 and I've never been disappointed in its power train. NEVER in 7 1/2 months and 10,000 (as of last night!) miles.
Obviously, there's no substitute for a test drive. It sounds to me like you're wondering, "If I get an A6, would I need to go with a 2.7T in order to be satisfied with the engine performance?" If that's the case, drive a 2.8 (in your choice of quattro or FrontTrak; this is important as their driving characteristics differ) and then decide whether or not you like it. If you decide that you DO like it, and you'd prefer to not spend the extra for the 2.7T, you should probably stop right there! Even if you like the 2.8, a drive in a 2.7T will likely cause you to become dissatisfied with the 2.8!
Besides the obvious horsepower difference, here are a few other things to consider:
1. Once you factor in the difference in M.S.R.P. and the fact that most dealers want more $$$ over invoice for a 2.7T than for a 2.8, the price difference becomes approximately $4000, identically-equipped.
2. Only the 2.7T offers the choice of a 6-speed manual.
3. Only the 2.8 offers the choice of FrontTrak (front wheel drive without quattro).
4. There is only one style of factory wheel (16" "wine glass") offered on the 2.8; there are 3 different wheels available on the 2.7T (one standard, the other two as components of different "Sport Packages").
5. Sport Packages are not offered on the 2.8; two different ones are offered on the 2.7T. Components include sport front seats, sport suspension, special wheels (including 17"), and performance tires.
6. On a 2.7T, if you want leather OR the moonroof, you must get both; you can get either separately on the 2.8.
7. The interior of a non-sport package 2.7T is identical to that of a 2.8 (unless, of course, the 2.7T is equipped with the 6-speed manual).
8. Likewise the exterior, except for wheels, tires, and trunk badging.
9. Finally, if you don't want the Premium Package (multi-function steering wheel, memory front seats & outside mirrors, auto-dimming mirrors, xenon headlights), CD changer, analog phone, or Guidance Package (navigation system and rear parking assist), but you do want leather, moonroof, and HomeLink, there's a way to save another $775 (at M.S.R.P.) on a 2.8. The "Celebration Luxury Package" ($1975) includes full leather interior, power moonroof, and HomeLink. If you buy these things separately, you pay $1550 for the stand-alone leather option and $1200 for the "Sunroof Package" (power moonroof and HomeLink). The Celebration Luxury Package is ONLY available on the 2.8. The only problem with it is that if you order it, you CANNOT order the Premium Package, CD changer (no problem though, as it can always be added later), analog phone (over-priced at $495 and analog only - not a popular option), or Guidance Package (if you want a factory navigation system, this is it). Personally, I reluctantly went the more expensive route solely because I wanted the xenon headlights. Now that I've had the car for awhile, I'll never own another car without them, period. I feel the same way about the auto-dimming mirrors. It's great not having to deal with glare from the outside mirrors, and the auto-dimming feature is the only way I've ever known that such glare can be eliminated. They're fabulous.
Hope this helps, Walter. Good luck with your decision.
Jan 18, 2001 (4:21 pm)
Wow -- Mike you should sell Audi's (if you don't already). Agree on the Xenon comment -- want again to add my encouragement to ONLY acquire an Audi (any new Audi) with ESP -- inexpensive, could save your life -- and will increase the car's value at trade in time. Remarkable technology.
I realize you probably are biased in favor of the 2.7T, but your "facts, features and functions" discussion is, nevertheless, a very persuasive comment on the 2.7T -- it is indeed the best value and a great deal more fun than the 2.8.
While I do really love my 4.2, I do believe it is not as high a value purchase as the 2.7T.
I would refer anyone to your comments who was considering A6 2.8 v 2.7T quattro's.
#712 of 6920 to markcincinnati re: # 708
Jan 18, 2001 (5:24 pm)
Thanks for the compliment, Mark. While I'd love to do just about anything having to do with cars for a living, I don't; I'm actually in the restaurant business.
Your point on ESP is well-taken. I unfortunately don't have it and have never driven an A6 with it, so I'm oblivious to its benefits. I must try a car with it, though I'm sure that doing so will make me wish that I had it!
In terms of favoring one version of the A6 over another, my personal feelings are mixed. There's no doubt that as engine performance (horsepower and torque) increases, so does the fun-to-drive factor. Whether or not it justifies the added cost is completely up to the individual buyer. I guess my feeling is that if one values and is willing/able to pay the price for the advantages offered by the 4.2, they should buy it. Likewise for the 2.7T. On the other hand, if the advantages of those models over the 2.8 don't matter, or if the cost difference is unmanageable, it's my belief that the 2.8 is a FABULOUS alternative to not only a 4.2 or 2.7T, but to just about everything else out there. I looked, believe me! Nothing else came close.
#713 of 6920 Could someone please refresh
Jan 18, 2001 (8:09 pm)
my memory as to what ESP stands for, and what it does?
#714 of 6920 ESP = Electronic Stabilization Program
Jan 19, 2001 (12:55 pm)
I'll give you two versions as to what it does.
Performance nut version:
ESP takes all the fun out of driving. It prevents you from maximizing the performance of your vehicle by keeping you well within the traction limits of your tires. Half the fun of driving is pushing your car to the edge with no safety net, and ESP takes all that away. Its only saving grace is that it can be turned off in most cars equipped with it.
Normal driver version:
ESP is a wonderful invention that keeps you in control of your vehicle at all time in all conditions. In ice, snow, or rain, it prevents fishtailing and spinouts. It allows you to drive normally in very low-traction situations, and not worry that you'll wind up in a ditch. There's simply no reason not to have it.
Technically speaking, ESP is simply an on-board computer that selectively brakes wheels when loss of traction is detected. My take is that since it can be turned off, there's no reason to avoid it. You just hit a button to disable it for spirited driving, but it's there if you just want an uneventful drive home when it's icy. Remember, though, that it's not a cure-all -- if you have zero traction at all wheels, nothing can help you.
Jan 19, 2001 (2:27 pm)