Last post on Oct 23, 2013 at 3:46 PM
You are in the Audi A6
What is this discussion about?
Audi A6, Sedan
#6796 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [jeqq]
Feb 15, 2008 (3:30 pm)
I have been, personally, through Audi's winter driving school in Seefeld, Austria four times. I have also been through BMW's X driving school.
That is the extent of my "cred."
The RWD cars almost NEVER beat the FWD cars in normal everyday driving under the conditions that were shown in this video without studded tires (on all four corners) and ESP. Perhaps the cars in this test were not shod with the same tires, I do know that the cars from Chrysler did come with ESP, and that would be an edge over the others without ESP.
At the holy land, Ingolstadt, there is a demonstration of three TT's going up a hill.
One car has RWD, one is FWD and one is, of course, AWD. The cars go up the hill and the results are, in this order: RWD, FWD, AWD -- the order signifies "how far up the hill. The RWD version, identically equipped to the other two goes the least far up the hill.
On the test track, in Seefeld, Audi has A4 quattros and A4 REAR wheel driver versions (yes, REAR wheel drive A4's). The first time I took the class we had A4 quattros and BMW 3 series, RWD only to drive to "prove a point."
The ability of the AWD version cars under icy conditions always exceeded the RWD versions. At that time, no FWD only cars were available for side by side by side comparo's.
At the X School, we were able to drive an AWD Bimmer and a RWD Bimmer on a slick concrete track that had been flooded with water -- the results were the same, the AWD Bimmers ALWAYS outperformed the RWD Bimmers -- indeed the AWD Bimmers, literally, ran circles around the RWD Bimmers. The AWD Bimmers could lap the RWD Bimmers in fact.
So, does this mean Chrysler's video is bogus? Beats me.
It does, however (without some funny biz with the tires and traction mitigation systems -- like the Impala doesn't even offer ESP -- at that time) seem unlikely that given identical circumstances that the RWD 300 would outperform the FWD Impala (and we're NOT talking about racing, we're talking about daily driving, at least that seems to me to be the circumstances that were portrayed in that clip.)
The car companies, almost all car companies are at least offering AWD versions -- that is, in part, because of the "go anywhere, anytime" capabilities these drive systems imbue the cars they are fitted with.
Drive a new 535 or A6 or Volvo or, Infiniti or Lexus or, or, or, equipped with AWD and you may get hooked on the increased capability these cars offer, in spades!
Make my AWD car a 2009 A4 3.2 SLine with torque vectoring quattro in Alpine White with Red Leather Seats.
#6797 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [markcincinnati]
Feb 15, 2008 (9:24 pm)
Mark, How do rate xDrive compared to quattro? I've only driven xDrive in dry conditions but never in rain or snow. IIRC you own an X3. I'm curious to hear your opinion.
BTW, I drove an S5 with red leather interior and it was drop dead gorgeous.
#6798 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [markcincinnati]
Feb 16, 2008 (5:46 pm)
Mark, thank you for your thoughtful posts. I'll defer to you on all your points but raise three issues:
1) Tires. I can easily imagine that FWD car with Blizzaks (or similar) would be far superior to an AWD with all season or summer and especially an optional "Sport Package" type 18" or 19" tire as say on a Jag XK or a Bimmer 5 series AWD
2) I'm not sure how much difference in final traction it really in AWD cars, if one car starts out sitting at 95%/5% Front to Rear power and the other is say, 45%/55% because the traction adjustment is very quick. I can say though that my wife's Volvo XC with 95/5 front to rear power scrubs on corners and is boring to drive.
My Cayenne while similar to a Toureg has much more "dry" power sent to the rear wheels.
3) Finally, I think if I ever buy a 911 it will be with AWD not because it would be any faster (it wouldn't be on dry pavement) but it the AWD would keep the front end hooked up on a rain/snow swept road. I also think that the ideal 911 daily driver for a northeastern guy wouldn't have big 19" boots to avoid hydroplanning.
#6799 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [jeqq]
Feb 17, 2008 (6:47 am)
For all practical purposes, I cannot tell any difference in the drive as it relates to AWD between the X and quattro. The BMW is better balanced, and of course it tends to understeer later because of that.
My wife, after MONTHS of shopping and test driving (a lot of fun actually) re upped for another X3, a 2008 (which has mucho more power.) This time she went with the SAV package which omits the harsher sport suspension, but still gives the larger wheels and tires, Servotronic, etc.
I would not have any issue with either set up.
The quattro I currently drive, but not for long, is a 50 50 torque split version. I understand the new A4, which I hope to get, is 40 60 and also employes torque vectoring (side to side torque shifting capabilities.)
Again, I drive on the highways in and around Cincinnati -- I do not take my car on the track. For all such purposes, any of these AWD systems will work fine. Now, with respect to boring or not boring, etc -- there are other design characteristics that will affect the drive. Weight balance is one, suspension set up is another.
#6800 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [markcincinnati]
Feb 17, 2008 (5:25 pm)
new A4, which I hope to get...
Not sure if 4 doors is a requirement, but I'd definitely take out an A5/S5. The A5 (S-Line) is surprisingly nimble and responsive; the S5 is addictive. As others have stated, the photos do not do it justice.
#6801 of 6921 Re: back to the snow video [markcincinnati]
Feb 17, 2008 (5:50 pm)
I was this close to leasing a 535xi. The negative side crash test results was one of my main deciding factor. The other was the deal I got on a 4.2 lease, less than the BMW. Plus after driving the 535 a few more times I started to feel I preferred the A6.
Have you drove an S5? I did and you'll be shocked to hear I did not like the feel of the manual transmission. I'm happier driving a Tip.
#6802 of 6921 A4?? Re: back to the snow video [markcincinnati]
Feb 18, 2008 (4:25 am)
"new A4, which I hope to get"
#6803 of 6921 Re: A4?? Re: back to the snow video [rayainsw]
Feb 18, 2008 (6:09 am)
Mark has owned over 1,000 A6s over the last 4,000 years. Despite his efforts to break free, I am betting that he gets another A6. I watch him at all of the AA meetings (Audi Anonymous) and he always stands up and says my name is Mark and I have a problem with A6s. I don't think he can kick the habit so quickly. I am guessing that he will talk Germany into providing him with a 4.2 bi-turbo with a MT.
Feb 20, 2008 (11:18 am)
on the 2009 A4 is late this year [september,october] we'll see the 3.2 automatic.
My understanding is that we will not see a 3.2 manual A4 in the states. However, you can order an A5 3.2 manual.
The 2.0T That is going back to chain drive is getting a big torque boost and is much smother than the current belt driven 2.0T. [so I'm told]
The 3.2 in the A5 is a different beast than the current 3.2 in the A6/A4. With valve lift, it feels like a turbo, and pulls harder all the way to redline.
I don't think we'll see torque vectoring on the A4 for a few more years. I do think we'll see it on the next generation S4 that is going back to a 3.0 TT set up.
There are Audi reps meeting in my dealership right now, not 15 yards away, but they are giving no 411.
#6805 of 6921 Re: My guess [dhamilton]
Feb 21, 2008 (1:04 pm)
The 3.2 V6 w/ 265hp and the new valvelift technology is a nice upgrade. It pulls very stong in the A5 and should work quite nice in the new 09 A4.
The A6 needs closer to 300hp in V6 form to keep up with the competition. 265hp is not bad in the 3.2 A6, but it still falls short a bit.