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Sedans Audi A6 Audi A6
6896 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM
You are in the Audi A6 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Feb 08, 2008 6:46 pm) AWD is NOT AWD is NOT AWD, but, from a practical perspective, if you are just talking about daily driving, not going up a hill or driving on a hockey rink, you will find these AWD cars will perform "close enough for jazz." If you want to know if there are differences, well, there are. Let's take one example, the A6 (let's take the last generation quattro even) vs the S80. The Audi begins with a 50-50 torque split. The Volvo comes in with a 95-5 torque split. The two cars put down power "at rest" differently -- the Audi puts 50% on the f and r; the Volvo 95% f and 5% rear. Newer Audis have shifted to 40 60 f/r. BMW's and Mercedes are, likewise rear biased. TorSen (torque sensing) is the Audi system -- it is said to be able to, from a practical perspective, again, ANTICIPATE slippage. The other systems, although they are instantaneous, are REACTIVE. Slip must occur BEFORE they shift torque from f to r. TorSen shifts torque "in real time" since it is a mechanical system that "binds" without needing the "lag time" required by the other non "real time" systems. We are, however, talking about FRACTIONS of a FRACTION of a second even with the slowest system. Is the TorSen difference important? Of course you can find as many opinions as there are folks -- and some will say yes and 'splain it, and some will say "negatory" and explain their reasons with equal eloquence and verisimilitude. Audis have a problem (only one?) -- yes but they're getting better -- uh, the problem is that a new A6 is still heavier in the nose than a 5 series Bimmer (with x drive, to keep the conversation as relevant as possible.) Yet, some magic engineering algorithm or design feature must be present in an Audi that makes it somehow more capable than its "fat nose" ought to allow. So, do I, Roseanne Rosanna Danna, think the Audi AWD (TorSen) system is better -- yes. But, I also think the differences are PERHAPS not significant enough to sway your buying decision, if, for instance, you think the S80 or whatever is "better looking," or has cooler features or, for whatever reason, just suits you better. The uphill drive on the link posted is -- for me -- 'nuff said, but, I already confessed to being an Audi fan so much so that I probably bleed little four-ring corpuscles when cut. I am, perhaps, even MORE of an AWD proponent than I am a quattro (TorSen) proponent. I consider it a performance and safety feature. And, I can see the point of view of those who will ONLY submit themselves to RWD cars. I just don't see any reason (and I live in Cincinnati) to even consider a 2WD vehicle. I am drawn, currently, to the upcoming A4 3.2 (B8) and it makes me wonder, why even bother with an A6 (at least until the next update comes along in a couple of years.) Check it out: Why Bother with an A6? Klikity Klik Drive it like you live, just drive it in AWD trim.
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Feb 12, 2008 3:11 pm) It is always great to read your posts. Thanks for stopping by. I have missed your particpation. Kevin |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Feb 12, 2008 3:11 pm)
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Replying to: pat (Feb 12, 2008 4:13 pm) But, to further respond to the "why quattro is different and/or better:" According to Wards Auto World: Aware that it needs to maintain the top-flight reputation of its quattro all-wheel-drive systems, Audi says it has a highly advanced form of quattro that has already made an appearance and will continue to proliferate throughout the lineup: Quattro w/Torque vectoring. Torque vectoring takes all-wheel drive to another level by varying drive torque not just between front and rear axles but also between wheels on the same axle. By adjusting torque side-to-side, a higher degree of handling performance is achieved by delivering more torque to the outside wheel in a corner, turning the vehicle more sharply and precisely. Torque vectoring also is a way to enhance safety, in effect an "active" form of the brake system-based vehicle stability control systems now common. Audis equipped with this will have: Rear biased AWD 40 60 f/r Better weight distribution (less porky front ends) Real Time torque shifting (front to rear and side to side) Both the A5 and the new A4 will have better weight distribution and as far as I know they are not better in that regard because of torque vectoring -- but I digress. So, couple a less nose heavy Audi design (that will spread across the entire lineup), with rear biased & Torque Vectoring/Torque Sensing AWD, and you would think this is a step forward -- and considering it does it with a real time system (mechanical) rather than a reactionary system, like SH-AWD, and considering that the Acura, speaking of SH AWD, for instance, with SH-AWD is nominally 95% FWD 5% RWD, well that would seem like a competitive edge retained or gained. Is quattro the best? Beats me -- it is certainly one of the best and it just keeps getting better. 
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Feb 13, 2008 3:05 pm) I don't know if quattro is the best, but I like driving it in the snow  Kevin
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Replying to: kgary (Feb 13, 2008 4:56 pm) Moral of the story is no matter how good your AWD is you need know your car's limitations in the snow. Mark, welcome back. I figured you were cruising the new A4 forums:) |
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cross post - years ago from the chrysler 300 forum. I believe Audi's snow video but do you believe Chrysler's? I do not. Here's the link. http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Mar04/Houghton_Ride_Drive_300- k.wvx
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Replying to: jeqq (Feb 15, 2008 8:05 am) That is the extent of my "cred." The RWD cars almost NEVER beat the FWD cars in normal everyday driving under the conditions that were shown in this video without studded tires (on all four corners) and ESP. Perhaps the cars in this test were not shod with the same tires, I do know that the cars from Chrysler did come with ESP, and that would be an edge over the others without ESP. At the holy land, Ingolstadt, there is a demonstration of three TT's going up a hill. One car has RWD, one is FWD and one is, of course, AWD. The cars go up the hill and the results are, in this order: RWD, FWD, AWD -- the order signifies "how far up the hill. The RWD version, identically equipped to the other two goes the least far up the hill. On the test track, in Seefeld, Audi has A4 quattros and A4 REAR wheel driver versions (yes, REAR wheel drive A4's). The first time I took the class we had A4 quattros and BMW 3 series, RWD only to drive to "prove a point." The ability of the AWD version cars under icy conditions always exceeded the RWD versions. At that time, no FWD only cars were available for side by side by side comparo's. At the X School, we were able to drive an AWD Bimmer and a RWD Bimmer on a slick concrete track that had been flooded with water -- the results were the same, the AWD Bimmers ALWAYS outperformed the RWD Bimmers -- indeed the AWD Bimmers, literally, ran circles around the RWD Bimmers. The AWD Bimmers could lap the RWD Bimmers in fact. So, does this mean Chrysler's video is bogus? Beats me. It does, however (without some funny biz with the tires and traction mitigation systems -- like the Impala doesn't even offer ESP -- at that time) seem unlikely that given identical circumstances that the RWD 300 would outperform the FWD Impala (and we're NOT talking about racing, we're talking about daily driving, at least that seems to me to be the circumstances that were portrayed in that clip.) The car companies, almost all car companies are at least offering AWD versions -- that is, in part, because of the "go anywhere, anytime" capabilities these drive systems imbue the cars they are fitted with. Drive a new 535 or A6 or Volvo or, Infiniti or Lexus or, or, or, equipped with AWD and you may get hooked on the increased capability these cars offer, in spades! Make my AWD car a 2009 A4 3.2 SLine with torque vectoring quattro in Alpine White with Red Leather Seats. |
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