Last post on Oct 23, 2013 at 3:46 PM
You are in the Audi A6
What is this discussion about?
Audi A6, Sedan
#5305 of 6921 Re: The Pendulum Swings....constantly. [richcream]
Mar 08, 2005 (1:26 pm)
If by purchase you mean buying it in cash -- then I need to clarify. If I "believed in" purchasing in cash, perhaps my sentiments would be different.
My issue is -- I do not see the value in a significantly higher monthly payment on a lease. It is either an indication of poor resale (the residual is low) or of a non-competitive money factor.
In a world called "virtually equal" insofar as this aspect would be concerned the Audi would still get my $ vote. Indeed even in a world where the Audi was more expensive (to a point) it would get my $ vote.
Maybe Audi has spoiled me. Maybe they have changed and I have remained the same.
A friend of mine bought a 2000 or 2001 BMW 5 with the 6 cylinder engine, no navigation system and premium, sport and several other options that cranked the MSRP to $49,999 and change. At that time, I think BMW may not have had "free maintenance."
I let him drive my Audi A6 4.2 sport which did have navi and several other packages which increased its cost to ~ $50,750. One day, he asked if he could drive my "innie" (he kidded me and always put "outties" down -- get it "outtie" and "innie" -- oh brother.)
He hit the entrance ramp to one of the Interstates here in River City and floored my 300HP Audi and the thing "leapt forward" as if it had been poked with a cattle prod. He stopped calling it an "innie" right then and there.
He asked me how much it cost, when I told him and he figured out that my AWD V8 Audi cost virtually the same (at MSRP) as his RWD 6 cylinder Bimmer, he asked me how Audi could sell cars with this much goodness and power for this much money.
In this particular Epiphany, he came to realize that to achieve (and surpass) this kind of performance would require the 5 series with the V8, which would have shot its price up, based on how it was optioned out, by some $6,000 to $10,000 -- and when it "weathered" here is SW Ohio, my friend drove his Jeep or called me to pick him up, as his RWD Bimmer was virtually useless when the coefficient of friction dropped during our mostly moderate winters.
Starting in 1977 with my first Audi 5000, I would, as each time my wife or I came ready to move on to a new car, read up on the competition. Rarely, very rarely, was I moved to test drive a competitive brand (competitive either in "content" or msrp, i.e.)
As I told the reporter from Business Week, it has only been in the VERY recent past (perhaps 6 months) that I began to consider something other than an Audi product might tempt me (or my wife).
Audis products, in my fairly extensive experience, have improved -- that is, each Audi we have acquired since 1977 has been a step forward in at least several different aspects: quality, reliability for certain (despite some folks howls to the contrary, all our Audis did move forward in this regard), features, functions, content, competence, performance, power, styling even -- in every way, every Audi we have owned since that first 1978 model Audi 5000 and that first 1979 Audi [silver] FOX GTI, had/has been "better" than the one it replaced.
Moreover, every Audi "seemed" insofar as this analysis can ever approach being "objective" a better value than anything that it could reasonably be compared with.
When my friend got that BMW 5 (I mentioned above) and I my Audi A6, and he called me when we had but a trace of snow on the ground because his car was "slip slidin' away" and I knew that our cars cost about the same at MSRP, and mine had a V8, AWD and a lower monthly lease payment -- I thought Audi would ultimately (eventually) be "the leading" German import -- for if you drove and priced Audis and BMW's (for instance) the Audi virtually always gave you so much more for your money in every way (performance, warranty, power, features, content) AND came with quattro -- well, I assumed that it was but a matter of time. . . .
Dr. Piech, the so-called "father of quattro" proclaimed that "eventually all premium sporting sedans (and other cars too) would offer AWD."
The man was a profit, and for at least 15 years I thought he must've been smokin' something 'cause no serious car company, thus far, ever seemed to take AWD seriously. Sure, in 1988, BMW dabbled a bit with the 325ix and even Mercedes came out with their overly complicated (at the time) 4Matic, but Audi had moved to offer AWD across the entire product line as early as 1984 (of course so much of the engineering and content "greatness" was overshadowed by "unintended acceleration.")
Now, today, "the foot is in the other shoe." Dr. Piech's "prophecy" is coming true -- like, now, like, all-at-once. Yet Audi with 25 years of leadership is moving (in my mind) from leader of the pack to "member" (front-runner, but member) of the pack. And, the heck of it is -- simultaneously there is no discernable marketing campaign to promote Audis history, heritage and engineering leadership -- juxtaposed with either an insane or inane "get them on the street" tactic (or strategy?) of pricing them slightly lower at MSRP but "beyond the tolerance of reasonable" lease prices when all the competition is coming out with -- finally -- truly competitive cars. Many with AWD, most with content equal to Audis and with market perceptions that, unfortunately, rate them equal to or higher than Audi's current rank in the pecking order of Premium cars.
Hence my frustration, hence my "value proposition" concerns.
Now, today, if my friend were to drive up in his new 530 BMW it would cost over $3,000 more than my new A6 3.2 at MSRP and be over $100 per month less on a lease. Despite my fondness for AWD, this discrepancy strikes me as either arrogant or just plain dumb.
In May, if the new 5 series AWD Bimmer is similarly priced (plus the added ~$2K for AWD) and the price is about the same as the A6 3.2, I can only assume that some folks will not even consider the Audi, because it will have lost an extremely valuable piece of market differentiation and has not capitalized on "all the goodness and goodwill" created over the past 25 years.
More's the pity. More's the pity.
Besides, the M35x is VERY COMPETITIVE, both in content/performance and MSRP -- I can see its attraction was the point I was trying to make with my colleagues at lunch.
Mar 08, 2005 (6:21 pm)
Mark: I bought a bmw 530 in 2001. I was comparing it to the Audi A6 2.7t at the time. The A8 was not a comparable price to the 530. My car has the sport, premium, etc...Also, I do get the free maintenance. It has 49,000 miles now with not one problem, except the cupholders. But, in 2001 I was going to get the Audi, but in several months from then, Audi was getting a facelift which I would want. Bottom line, I would have had to wait about 7 months out. At that time, the bmw definitely had a better driving experience, but the Audi was more luxurious inside and bigger, which I liked. Anyhow, the bmw has been great and we'll keep it forever. I am now considering the A6 because of its size and comfort. Although, in 2001, my friend bought the A6 and continually had it in the shop for oil consumption problems. Just recently turned it in early. Seems it was a lemon, though.
Mar 08, 2005 (7:07 pm)
I had both a 2000 A6 4.2 and a 2001 A6 4.2 sport.
My comparison was with my sport suspension equipped A6 V8. The price comparison, NOT the model designation was the basis of my story. I was not and if I did, did not mean to suggest that an Audi A8 was comparably priced with a 530 Bimmer.
The common assumption was that there were 3 models of the Audi A6 and three of the BMW 5 series and that they were marketed in the US to compete with each other.
On paper, these three cars from their respective companies were, in terms of power, low, medium and high, although the 2.7T was quicker and faster than the middle BMW.
The price, however made a match between the middle BMW and the top Audi a more likely comparison.
When one could acquire a V8 sport equipped A6 OR a BMW 6 cylinder also sport equipped for approximate money (and the lease even more favored the Audi) the Audi could "beat" the BMW in many ways.
This was the basis for the value prop I have been on about (that I am concerned Audi has either lost or forgotten).
If I somehow suggested that I was comparing an A8 to the 530, I misspoke. I was comparing the Audi 4.2 to the 530i based on the closeness of their MSRP's at the time.
However, in point of fact, the 2.7T version was more capable in many respects based on its high torque and horsepower. At that time, the Audi 2.7T & 4.2 A6's were on C&D's 10 Best.
The current, new A6, IMHO should have made the cut this year -- but alas it did not grace C&D's top 10.
Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
Mar 08, 2005 (10:08 pm)
Mark: I'm sorry. I meant to say an A6 4.2, not an A8. In my area, I couldn't get a 4.2 for the same price as the 530, which I paid MSRP for back in 2001. I'm sure you were able to get a better deal than I. Again, the 2.7t was the car I wanted, but time was a factor. I've been happy with the 530 but am currently looking at the new A6. It's beautiful, and in my area, they aren't around every corner like the bmw.
#5309 of 6921 windshield wipers 02
Mar 13, 2005 (4:57 pm)
can you change this yourself? can you get these at a auto parts store or have to get them from the dealer (mine is 70 miles away) are there inserts or do replace the whole blade??? how much, and is it hard to do
Mar 16, 2005 (8:11 pm)
Is it just me, or does the upcoming Passat dangerously resemble the A6? If you squint, you can even see VW's version of the single frame grille. Dimensions are relatively close, and typically the two brands share DNA under the skin, anyway. 4-Motion is allegedly a less advanced version of Quattro, but are the systems truly that different?
VW is also developing a new 3.6 liter, 280-hp V6 for the Passat's debut in early 2006. If I'm a new A6 owner with the 3.1 liter 255-hp motor, I would not be a happy camper when I learn about the better endowed VW, or if Audi decides to offer the bigger engine a year later.
#5312 of 6921 Re: 06 Passat [cstiles]
Mar 16, 2005 (8:14 pm)
Actually they don't share much...at all.
The Passat now shares the new Golf/Jetta platform, and much of the content (suspension/steering, hvac, etc).
I would suspect the A6 has a more refined drive...but it's just speculation.
#5313 of 6921 Re: 06 Passat [cstiles]
Mar 17, 2005 (7:14 am)
I believe the Passat gets a stronger V6 because it won't be offered with the V8. Then again, they may offer the W8 again which rules out my theory on the V6.
Mar 17, 2005 (7:15 am)
The Passat W8 is gone.