Last post on Oct 23, 2013 at 3:46 PM
You are in the Audi A6
What is this discussion about?
Audi A6, Sedan
#4478 of 6921 Re: auditor [auditor #222]
Jun 25, 2004 (12:07 pm)
I hate to give half-baked answers, so I'll try to give you enough information to make an educated decision.
My 1997 A8 had the standard suspension, I ordered the S8 suspension kit and had the Audi dealer put it on for me (lower springs, swaybars, struts, lower profile and wider tires). Big diff in handling, little diff in ride quality.
Bought a 2000 A6 4.2 w/standard suspension but 17" wheel/tire option. Due to my obsession to have ESP, traded that in on a 2001 A6 4.2 w/ sport package -- again big diff in handling (mostly in cornering, in that the body roll was almost eliminated). Don't leave home without it.
Bought a 2003 allroad 2.7T with 6speed manual, immediately put on 18" wheels and 45 series tires and wider tires, also put on REAR Audi-sport anti-sway bar and had the Audi technician "fool" my air suspension computer into "lowering" the ride height by 12mm (making it about the same as the A6 4.2 sport suspension ride height). This combination transformed the allroad into "almost" an A6 4.2 sport in terms of handling and with the switchout of the stock turbo by-pass-valves for sport BPV's, my 6spd manual allroad became a threat to A6 4.2s in terms of accelerative (and as mentioned handling) prowess.
I understand the cost issue, I understand and disagree about the lower profile tires and 18" wheels, vs the 17" wheels. Which sorta kills my next "alternative" suggestion, which was, if you didn't want to consider the full-blown sport suspension option that you should at the very least get the upsized wheels and tires, which, in my opinion will get you about 60% of the benefit of the whole sport set up, just as long as you realize there will be a bit more body roll.
You have to drive the car and it has to make you happy. If you don't like the lower profile tires and 1" bigger wheels,the correct thing for you to do is avoid them. At least consider the high performance tires -- the 4.2 is a blast to drive and it will make you want to tackle the twisties with full-gusto.
My personal tastes are to go with the maximum sporty suspension -- and that is right for ME. Under no circumstances am I suggesting that the stock set up and 17" wheels and tires are somehow weak or bad. I prefer the lower body roll and the extra grip. Just agree to disagree, there is no right or wrong thing to do in this regard -- I explained my preferences and made my opinionated comments based on my biases. You will be delighted with the stock set-up, I only suggest one thing: test drive both a stock and sport set up. If the "look" still gets you, so be it, if the improvement in cornering grabs your attention, well then, go for that.
I believe MY allroad set to the lowest level (with the mods I noted above) is ~ the equivalent of the A6 sport suspension. But, never having driven an 05 A6 period, I can only speculate that the new A6 will -- even in stock, non-sport mode -- have a tighter suspension and crisper handling.
The ride quality of the new A6 should be better too, due in no small part to the added 34% torsional rigidity of the new model.
I hope this helps.
#4479 of 6921 Re: auditor [markcincinnati #221]
Jun 25, 2004 (12:12 pm)
How, in your opinion, would air suspension in the '05 A6 4.2 (which you convinced me yesterday wouldn't be much help in softening the ride over my bumpy city streets), and using it in the lowest/most dynamic setting compare to just getting sport suspension (without air suspension)?
#4480 of 6921 Re: auditor [bmwccc #224]
Jun 25, 2004 (12:23 pm)
I faxed 5 pages to you about 4 hours ago. If you didn't get them, let me know and I'll send them again.
#4481 of 6921 Re: auditor [auditor #227]
Jun 25, 2004 (1:03 pm)
Auditor, i will go check the fax. Thanks in advance for the help. Lets keep up the chatter on this inc. test drives etc.
#4482 of 6921 Re: auditor [bmwccc #228]
Jun 25, 2004 (2:21 pm)
bmwccc: I just sent you the 5 pages, again. Let me know if you got them.
#4483 of 6921 Re: Air suspension. . . [markcincinnati #208]
Jun 26, 2004 (4:27 am)
I've read and reread your very much appreciated detailed explanation of air suspension in message #208, plus your comments in other of your messages about the pluses of sport suspension in, for example, an A6 4.2V8.
One further question: Can a 2005 A6 4.2 V8 equipped with sport suspension also have air suspension, or are the two somewhat redundant "systems" or "setups" incompatible?
#4484 of 6921 Suspension thoughts. . . .
Jun 26, 2004 (8:03 am)
It is my understanding, thus far, on the subject of the air suspension and sport suspension that there are "two variables" that, at this time I can ONLY speculate on: wheel/tire system and f+r anti-swaybars.
On the sport suspension set up, Audi traditionally has done the following:
1. lower ride height (usually 20mm sometimes, rarely, as much as 35mm lower) and of course stiffer springs.
2. roll bar diameter -- on the A6 vs sport A6 the roll bars are 20% larger on the sport suspension than on the standard suspension
3. "strut damping" 'improvement' to provide less jounce and quicker recovery from spring compression and expansion
4. at the very least lower profile tires (the so called "plus zero" size change or "plus one" size change (often accompanied by a change to a higher performance tire --UHP or MAX, "summer only" tires).
These steps are sometimes further enhanced with the swapping out of the comfort seats for sport seats which contribute to the driver's butt staying in place in, shall we say, twisty driving feats. And, sometimes even further changes to brake pads and/or the entire braking system accompany all this engineering magic.
The above is "as it is today and as it has been for some time." However, these "static" changes do not exactly track when the subject of the current A8, allroad and RS 6 are included in the discussion.
The RS 6 does, as you may know, all the above and it does NOT have an air suspension, but it does have the ability to further control roll articulation via an "X" design of the "shock absorbers." During cornering where body roll would normally happen the appropriate "shocks" are stiffened reducing body roll dynamically, more precisely and appropriately for the g forces being generated than merely the anti-sway bars and bushings could ever do. The RS 6 system is a passive-dynamic system. It has no intelligence no active brain that causes changes in the suspension system.
The A8 (and the somewhat similar system in the allroad) has struts and springs and anti-swaybars just like a normal car. Additionally it has four air-filled bladders that can be pumped-up or decompressed. Add air and one thing happens, subtract air and the opposite happens.
Generally speaking what this "thing" that happens is, is as follows: ride height starts at level 1 and can be increased in steps to levels 2,3 & 4. Each step changes the dynamic capabilities of the car and if set on full-auto mode, the ride height will raise and lower in response to certain speed related trigger points. But do not confuse this active suspension trait with a so-called "active suspension." For example, if the suspension is set to level 3 and a certain speed in attained the suspension will lower itself to level 2 (decreasing the coefficient of drag and stiffening the springs). This ride height change happens gradually perhaps taking a minute -- this is not a change that happens in response to entering a curve such as the RS 6 suspension. Indeed, if the curve would be entered at the threshold speed of the suspension (to lower itself) and the corner is being negotiated, the suspension will actually "pause" until the curve has been negotiated and the chassis is returned to a more or less flat attitude. At higher speeds yet the suspension will again lower itself to minimum ride height, maximum stiffness and all the accompanying attributes such ride height and spring compression carry, will be realized. It is a good system. It is not an active handling in on-line, real-time, big-time show-time (say that really fast) speed.
Think of this system, as good as it is and with many benefits as a major evolution of automatic load leveling (remember when you used to put all your luggage in the back of your Caddy and it would level itself out?) Indeed, the Audi will compensate for the rear load by raising the rear end, just like your father's Cadillac.
What I do not know is if, in the air-suspension model, the associated hardware (as listed in #1 - #4 above) is set to the same level of sporty minded-ness. With the air suspension, for example, are the roll bars automatically 20% thicker (they we're NOT on my allroad, I had to buy the sport anti-sway bar from Audi). Are the tires plus sized and up-rated to a grippier status? Are the other potential associated changes in the "plain old" sport mode faithfully carried out with the air suspension?
I do not know.
I read a lot of articles, web sites and other car-info, and I have been unable to get clarification on this aspect.
So, as usual, I'll give my opinion and qualify it as such: I believe the ride height at level 1 of the "new '05 A6" air suspension will be ~ the same as the sport suspension. I believe the sport suspension will have the edge (when ordered as the "Sport Package") over the air suspension at level one, assuming the air-suspension does not come with plus sized wheels and tires and thicker anti-roll bars and sport struts.
The current set-up of the air suspension as I understand it on the A8L is further sported-up in the "S8" version (I know, I know, we're talking futures). So I draw the conclusion that the sport suspension is, despite the similar ride height comparison to level 1 of the air suspension, still the sportiest of the two (and lower in cost for obvious reasons).
I have had ZERO problems with my air suspension'd allroad (a 2003 model). If I could have purchased the car with just a sport suspension -- for less cost -- I would have, due to the limited value I perceive in this feature.
I like to keep the suspension as low as it will go, for the performance improvements it supplies, most of the time. And, if I were told "you must keep it in level one" -- well, that would be fine with me.
Assuming I move forward with the new A6 for 05, I will order the sport suspension, period. I will further clarify: knowing what I KNOW at this juncture, I would get the sport suspension over the air suspension even if they were the same price. My opinion would changed, ONLY, if I found that the air suspension had the other sporty attributes mentioned above.
If I had a magic wand, I would want the RS 6 suspension (and brakes and seats) over either of these choices, however.
I hope this helps.
#4485 of 6921 New Audi Photos
Jun 28, 2004 (3:01 pm)
Hey Guys, just went on Audi's site for the 5oth time but noticed a new link named: Explore the 2005 A6. (Not the On the Horizon one though!)
On this micro site shows some new screen saver and wallpaper photos. This is such a nice car, I am really liking the front grill and like the rear much better than the 04'. The interior is super nice as well.
Anyway, a question I have for you guys back east that have seen some of the cars or paint chips is what color is the car that shows the 2 rear shots? Some sort of Gray i think?
They are also saying 0-100 kmp in 6.1, does that usually translate to 0-60 in 5.9-6.0?????
Jun 28, 2004 (3:19 pm)
0-62 in 6.1 i suppose? Probably something like what you said
#4487 of 6921 Re: New Audi Photos [bmwccc #232]
Jun 28, 2004 (5:45 pm)
I think that color is the oyster gray. I might go with the beige though. I like the lighter color interior.