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Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars
#1388 of 1489 daysailer & wayne
Sep 25, 2003 (5:30 am)
Daysailer : Prius-2004 is sailing smoothly across both sides of the Pacific
Japan-11,000 orders (18 days AFTER launch)
USA -10,000 orders (25 days BEFORE launch)
If they cant meet the demand, they may have to decrease the production of
Solara / Celica and increase the production of Prius. Please bear with it.
Wayne : If TCO is very important, then you can get a 5 years old used Corolla / Civic / Sentra for 7-8 k and with high mpg, the saving will more.
Please note that whether Honda discontinues Insight or launches a newer bigger model, then the existing model will become a 'COLLECTORS ITEM' just like old coins / stamps and no one will be willing to sell it for the price you want.
You know very well that Toyota plans to launch a Hybrid vehicles in this order
RX-400 - 2004
Highlander - 2005
Sienna - 2005
Camry - 2006 (estimated)
Corolla - 2007 (estimated)
So you have to wait for another 4 years. No use asking for hybrid Corolla today. Anyway if Corolla gives 40 mpg, then it is the best for you.
Sep 25, 2003 (6:04 am)
The 2001-2003 Prius clearly qualifies for the US
Federal Clean Fueled Vehicle tax deduction.
The tax deduction is $2000 off of your taxable income for the year you purchased your car, assuming the calendar year is 2000-2003. The value goes down to $1500 for a purchase in calendar year 2004 (thanks to a sunset clause).
If you can argue it, the Electric Vehicle Credit (you can only take the credit OR the deduction, not both), is $2000 for calendar years 2000-2003. I haven't checked to see if it's also being reduced, as the Prius most likely doesn't qualify.
The credit is a direct reduction of the amount of income taxes you owe. The amout off of your taxes from the deduction depends on your tax bracket. (I had a link somewhere that showed the scale... not much more than $600, IIRC).
You can take the Clean Fueled Vehicle deduction whether or not you itemize your taxes. It gets its own line item.
More info can be found in IRS Publication 535 ("Business Expenses"), chapter 12.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p535.pdf (2002 publication)
Individuals can claim the deduction - they just stuck the info in the "Business Expenses" because they felt like it...
Sep 25, 2003 (8:39 am)
>If you can argue it, the Electric Vehicle Credit...is $2000
>for calendar years 2000-2003. I haven't checked to see if it's also
>being reduced, as the Prius most likely doesn't qualify.
That Electric Vehicle Credit is not available for the Prius; the instructions for Form 8834 make it perfectly clear that gas/electric hybrids are not "qualified electric vehicles" (the Insight and Prius are both mentioned).
Anyway, I believe the credit is the lesser of $4000 or 10% of the vehicle's cost and, starting in 2004, the *maximum* credit will be reduced to $3000.
Sep 25, 2003 (8:48 am)
> If TCO is very important, then you can get a 5 years old used
Yes, that is an excellent point that routinely gets overlooked.
Another is how the "American Way" was to do things for the sake of keeping our country something to be proud of. Those days seem to be gone. Now a "sacrifice" of any type, even the smallest of things, is asking too much. The mindset is to consume as we please and figure out how to deal with it later... which unfortunately, it will be our children that have to deal with the problems we created.
In short, we should look closer at what we really NEED. Fulfilling a WANT occasionally is fine, but even then it shouldn't be to the extreme. (For example, buy a full-size SUV rather than a monster-size one. And then of course, use it for what it was actually designed for.)
Sep 25, 2003 (10:36 am)
...I am very interested in the tax deduction aspect of my purchase of the '04 Prius. So, based on what you said and the link provided, if I am in the 28% tax bracket, then my deduction will be $560.00 which is $2000 multiplied by 0.28 correct?? Since the two documents the feds required for the deduction do not mention the 2004 model, I guess Toyota Dealers will have to draft new documents??
Sep 25, 2003 (10:40 am)
...located on this site http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/cvip/
would have given me another benefit of owning a Prius, however, since Texas and many other states are having budget problems I won't be able to see this benefit anytime soon, if ever. That's too bad...
Sep 25, 2003 (11:55 am)
> John Said: “If TCO is very important, then you can get a 5 years old used Corolla / Civic / Sentra for 7-8 k and with high mpg, the saving will more.
Please note that whether Honda discontinues Insight or launches a newer bigger model, then the existing model will become a 'COLLECTORS ITEM' just like old coins / stamps and no one will be willing to sell it for the price you want.”
___I guess you are about to find out the hard way in regards to TCO with the $7,000 to $9,000 loss you are about to take on your 01 Prius trade In the case of an 01 Corolla LE w/ Auto, ABS, Cruise, PW, PL, PM, etc. and 60K on the odometer, it would be more like $5.5K hit ... Did I mention that an 01 Corolla LE loaded cost less than $14,000 at time of purchase vs. your 01 Prius $20,000 +? Yes, you apparently know quite a bit about TCO and are going to find out the hard way with your Prius trade as mentioned time and time again.
___As for the Insight, the only reason I am interested in a used 01/02 is because with a bit of coaxing, you can cruise in its unique “Lean Burn” mode. In that condition, many achieve 75 – 90 mpg out of them. If I can pick one up for $10,000 - $11,000 with < 20,000 miles on it, the TCO will be minimal given I will take it to the end of its life as a give away to the “Make a Wish” foundation. I will have lost $11,000 (initial cost) over 150,000 + miles while achieving 75 + mpg for my commute. Maintenance will hopefully be minimal as is the case with a Corolla or Civic, fuel cost will be the smallest I could possibly imagine, and its end of life costs are $1,000 - $3,000 as a gift. That is how TCO works in the real world.
PS: I forgot to mention that I just received 45.2 mpg over 365 miles from my 03 Corolla LE w/ Auto
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#1395 of 1489 I "need" not to spend unnecessarily ...........................
Sep 25, 2003 (12:06 pm)
and I would not call a "sacrifice" of several $thousand "the smallest of things", particularly when I must suffer handling and acceleration more akin to an SUV than a competent sedan.
#1396 of 1489 Yes, we hear you. :)
Sep 25, 2003 (12:10 pm)
It definitely seems that you are not shopping for a Prius!
Let's move the conversation on, now.
Sep 25, 2003 (12:12 pm)
> I guess you are about to find out the hard way in regards
> to TCO with the $7,000 to $9,000 loss you are about to
> take on your 01 Prius trade
The point was that the advantage was to the BUYER of the used vehicle, not the seller. So you make out really well purchasing used instead of new in that case, hence a much better TOC.
Also note that because the demand for the 2004 Prius is very high already (around 21,000 orders worldwide so far) and orders will likely take months to fill, the demand for the used 2001-2003 will be high. So the trade-in value should be fairly competitive, similar to what you'd expect for other vehicles.