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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2005 and earlier

4431 messages,  Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 7:07 AM

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#61 of 4431 im back by mcdill Jun 22, 2000 (1:30 am)
broncodave ,just because you had these problems doesnt mean that everyone else will have the same experience you did, unless we were talking about kia's.
#62 of 4431 Redesigned Grand Prix? by darkhalf Jun 22, 2000 (1:56 am)
I am just curious if anybody has heard any information about the redesigned grand prix for 03' or 04'?
#63 of 4431 mcdill by broncodave Jun 22, 2000 (12:05 pm)
I never said that they would all the problems that I did. However, I think someone who is interested in buying a car should hear both good and bad ownership stories in order to make an informed decision.
#64 of 4431 Gotta back my man Dave up on this one by mattchalmers Jun 22, 2000 (1:27 pm)
I am not sure that I would have dealt with the situation in the same way Dave, but I can appreciate your frustration. I believe graphicguy's point on the confrontation issue is that when you give an ultimatum to some one like GM they are more likely to let you go buy a Honda. In their mind they already lost you as a customer so why spend $1,700 to help you out? Now for my experience. I totally agree with you that the problem was there from day 1. I had a 99 GP GT Sedan that I also bought brand new as my first car. My family is deeply GM as multiple members have been or are still employees. My GP was in the shop for over 20 business days the first year, not counting the 45 calendar days for bodywork (body shop was inept). I had a new transmission put in, drove it out of the service department and the driveability problem was still there. Next day I had a flat tire (nail). That was not the dealer's fault though because they admitted to flattening the right front not right rear. I digress, after the new transmission was already in they found out, by driving the car with a Tech 1 or 2 attached that the torque converter was engaging and disengaging repeatedly while shifting from 3rd to 4th. This was tearing the tranny to pieces. They downloaded new software to the computer and the problem was fixed. I had a sit down with the dealer's service manager and the GM district service manager. They spent 2 hours explaining to me that every car has problems and I am just hung up on the past problems. Suffice it to say I was not happy, I pulled rank (which I did NOT want to do) and got the car bought back. Because of the inept local dealer I did not buy another GP and instead bought a Catera (which has been great). This is only anecdotal evidence, but I do think there is a problem with the transmission system in the GPs that may or may not be fixed in 2000. It is very hard to know because for the last three years Pontiac/GM has refused to admit that a problem existed. My sympathy goes out to you Dave, you got bent over a barrel and the only thing I can tell you is what I told the GM rep, "I can only vote with my money. You will not listen to me now, but 40+ years of future car buying will speak for itself."
#65 of 4431 dealers by graphicguy Jun 22, 2000 (2:53 pm)
What I've always contended to be true is being born out by what I'm hearing here. The dealer is the link between you and the manufacturer. Dealer service equates directly to the perception of your ownership experience, be it good or bad. Broncodave, in your situation, the dealer had no idea what went wrong. That's unacceptable. I would have hauled it to another dealer to get a better answer. AAMCO has been invetigated by the FTC for trying to put a new or overhauled transmission in just about every car that comes in to their shops, whether faulty or not. Fact is, your original dealer didn't feel compelled (because you were out of warranty and they weren't looking for your repeat business) to give you a straight answer. They are a bad dealer and left you with a bad ownership experience. If, as the transmission guys said, that your trans wouldn't shift into 4th gear was caused by some catastrophe, then every catastrophic event has to have some cause. How else would you know how to keep the problem from happening again, if you don't know the cause? I would be that if the dealer told you what went wrong and what they were going to do to fix it AND appealed to GM on your behalf with some sort of relief, your story would be different. mattchalmers--I had a buyback from BMW several yers ago. Had to fight tooth and nail to get it done, but I went through arbitration to "win the day". I haven't bought another BMW since then, but I don't condemn the brand, just the dealer. If the dealer is competent enough to fix problems, then your buyback, my buyback wouldn't have been neccessary. I'll repeat what I've said before. GM has put millions of the 3.8L/4 speed trannys (the only way they come) on the road. They put the same combo in the GPs. This is a proven design. Leave it to an inept dealer to srew something up. That's why I shop the dealer and much as I shop for the car or the price.
#66 of 4431 mattchalmers, graphicguy by broncodave Jun 22, 2000 (4:03 pm)
You both are absolutely right. I did make some mistakes and I learned a lot from them. granphicguy-- At the point in time I was ready to buy another GM despite the transmission problem. The dealer had he done right would have earned repeat business. mattchalmers-- you couldn't be more right about GM denying anything is wrong. I hold the dealer accountable for not following procedure and GM for backing up the dealer when he was wrong. It all come down to who owns the issue. The dealer says "we just sell them". GM says "we just build them". In the end, it is the customer that looses. My next post is my final letter to the owner of the dealership. If you never read another one of my posts then please read this next one; it will explain a lot.
#67 of 4431 broncodave by graphicguy Jun 22, 2000 (6:14 pm)
Don't be so hard on yourself (and I appologize for being so judgemental). You've said your peace. I doubt you'll get much response from the dealer as they no longer have any "skin" in the game. A lesson was learned, unfortunately at your $1,800 expense. I will grant you, that there seems to be inordinate amount of "below acceptable" dealerships that operate in this country. I think that some of the "old thought" dealerships out there still exist that believe their responsibility for their products and services begins and ends when you drive the car off the lot. They are ususally easy to spot from the way they handle the sales end of things. If they seem to "churn" through their sales people quickly, then it is a more than even bet that they do so in the service area, too. Ususally, if they have a "seasoned" sales and service staff, it means that they care about their employees and it turn, their customers. There is a Pontiac dealer in my town that has been in business and in the same family for almost 60 years. None of their sales folks have been there more than 6 months (that's why I've never bought a car from them). Good luck with your new car (what'd you get?) and stop back from time to time and tell us how you're doing.
#68 of 4431 graphicguy by broncodave Jun 22, 2000 (7:18 pm)
I do appreciate your comments. Your comments were very tame considering some of what I got from posting on some of the Grand Prix boards. You are right about the dealerships. I went to no fewer than 5 different Honda dealerships before I purchased the Accord. Three of them I wouldn't even consider buying from because they were unhelpful in the selling process. I knew if I ever had a problem they would not address it. It isn't just GM that has crappy dealers. The dealership that I purchased the Accord from was great. I got a quote over the web and came in for the test drive. The only other thing to decide was the value of the Grand Prix for the trade-in. I got a good value based on Kelly Blue Book and was in the Accord in less than 2 hours. I really liked the fact that the purchase price was set before I walked in the door. I got a pretty good deal too $100 over true invoice. As part of my purchase I requested to have a face to face meeting with the service manager before I signed on the dotted line. I told him what my expections are if I ever came in with a problem. He sat back and smiled and said "Is that why you aren't buying another Pontiac? I told him it was. He said "they must have really done you wrong to come in here and talk to me before you purchased. I haven't seen a customer your age do that before." Live and learn I guess. As a side note, I never did hear from the dealer or GM after my last letter but I didn't expect to either.
#69 of 4431 mattchalmers by ruski Jun 23, 2000 (6:29 pm)
if there was an inherent problem with the transmission, would Volvo or BMW buy these trannies from GM? The fact is that Volvo's flagship S80 uses the same exact tranny.
#70 of 4431 broncodave by graphicguy Jun 23, 2000 (8:05 pm)
Good luck with your Accord. My sister just bought one and loves it. She's younger than I am (by a substantial margin) and thinks I'm a dink for buying a "spots car" (she thinks anything with big tires is a sports car) at my advanced age (early 40s). Sigh!!!!!!!

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