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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2005 and earlier

4431 messages,  Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 7:07 AM

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#4 of 4431 Beating a dead horse by mrivers May 07, 2000 (1:04 am)
"I guess I always thought dual(meaning two) exhaust meant an exhaust header on each side of the engine and two seperate exhausts, one for each side to relieve back pressure" You'll be pressed hard to find true dual exhuast on a transversally(sp?) mounted motor. Putting "dual exhaust" on the GP would be a waste of resources, the motor is artificially restricted to 240hp anyhow. "...I am sure just adding that second muffler will do the job" Adding a second muffler doesn't always "do the job", not in the GP's case, it's just for looks in this case. The Regal GS has the same output with a single muffler. "You forgot to mention your great seats,I am sure they are quite comfortable." I can't disagree with you on this point, but I don't agree with you either. The seats are uncomfortable to you, I can't dispute that. They suit me fine however. "You still havent explained why they couldnt put an indicator tab on the prnd321 on the console rather than the dash but if you" The dash is closer to your line of sight and it would be redundent to also have it on the console. It only has PRND321 next to it so you won't confuse it with the parking brake. Most people can "feel" which gear it's in anyhow, similar to how manual gearshifters have no marker and can you only "feel" which gear your in. When you get rid of your piece of crap Pontiac, for not having a console mounted gear marker, and having fake dual exhaust, let the rest of us know so we can trow a party.
#5 of 4431 ruski by delphi2 May 07, 2000 (4:09 am)
I see you dont own a GP, just leasing a 98 right? Smart move. It is nice to see a proud Chrysler owner defend the GPs
#6 of 4431 delphi2 by ruski May 07, 2000 (4:45 am)
yep I am leasing a 98 GP GTP and a 99 300M. Both are great cars and I have not had any problems with them. I have been thoroughly enjoying them instead of whining, and nitpicking, not to mention trolling in the Townhall forums. Are you leasing your GP or do you own it? If you hate it so much, maybe you will just give it to me? It won't make any sense for you selling it, with those GP depreciation rates.
#7 of 4431 . by 96gs May 07, 2000 (5:06 am)
Although the exhaust on the GP may not be "true" dual exhaust, it sure sounds good. My car has the twin tip single exhaust and it sounds like a vacuum cleaner when revving up. Guess it's not made to sound sporty. I can't believe some of the things people find to complain about cars. Just look at all the things you get in a 25K GP. Tremendous power, good handling, safety, good looks, LOTS of standard luxuries, etc. Of course interior materials won't be up to the standards of a Lexus. That's why a Lexus costs twice as much. I really don't think it's worth it. You get what you pay for, and in my opinion, you get a lot more than what you pay for when you buy a GP. Replies to this message: jigly74 (Oct 15, 2005 7:07 pm)
#8 of 4431 Yeesh by kazz May 07, 2000 (7:46 pm)
You'd think we were talking bout Mustangs, what with all the venom being thrown aroud in here on both sides of the fence. So, who am I not to pitch in? First, Ruski makes a sad point. The depreciation on GPs is horrible. I've been watching the GP Owners site lately, and some of the numbers they get for trade-ins--$14k for a 98 GTP, it seems, are just awful. This is NOT a car for you if you are looking for lots of retained value and maybe a trade-in in a couple years. Buy it if you are planning to keep it, methinks. Second, I'll leave the whole dual-exhaust arguement to you guys, as I am not quite enough of a gearhead to, well, care. They look nice, they sound nice, and GM purposefully controlled the power of the engine for their own reasons, probably reliability and engineering issues. Good enough for me, though I might try to squeeze another 20hp out of it in a few years anyway... Third, I think the correct term for all the sticker-plastered, loudly puttering Japanese cars is "Rice Rocket," not "Rice Mobile." Also, lest you think we were not global citizens here at the Town Hall, it can apply to any car, not just a Japanese one. I had a vaguely guilty feel myself taking delivery of my 2000 Daytona Pace replica, with it's cool-looking-but-mostly-useless doodad accessory package. Still, Since the manufacturer did it for me, I think I'm safe from a rice attack! Last, Ruski: If you have a 300M and a GP, can you answer me a question? Is comparing the two cars a fair comparison? Do the missions and prices line up to the point where they could realistically be a head-to-head comparison, or is it apples and oranges? I ask because, as mentioned earlier, it seems to me that the GP usually gets associated with more expensive cars. I just wanted your take. Thanks, Kazz
#9 of 4431 kazz by ruski May 08, 2000 (2:13 am)
the GP resale value comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek for delphi2 since he was harping so much about it. 300M vs GP GTP: GTP is much quicker off the line and lighter overall. 300M corners better and feels more solid. 300M accelerates very strongly at higher speeds Although I cannot complain about GTP's acceleration at any speed. 300M looks about the same size from outside but has more interior space 300M has bigger trunk 300M has the AutoStick GTP has a driver's heated seat 300M has a driver AND a front passenger heated seat GTP has a 6-way power driver's seat with 4-way power lumbar. Front passenger's seat is mechanical. 300M's both front seats are 8-way power adjustable.300M's lumbar support is mechanically adjustable. 300M has 2-position memory for driver's seat, mirrors, and stereo presets. GTP does not have memory like that. 300M's leather feels softer. 300M has fake wood. GTP does not have any wood. GTP's stock stereo is not bad 300M has an optional 320 watt stereo with 11 speakers. Very nice. GTP has dual zone auto climate control. 300M has a regular auto climate control. GTP has very comprehensive stereo controls on the steering wheel. 300M does not have redundant stereo conrols on the steering wheel. GTP has Head Up Display, 300M does not. Overall 300M is more luxurious, but GTP is not far behind. 300M is a larger car and that makes it a better family hauler. Hypothetically Pontiac could add a few features (seat/mirror memory, heater front passenger's seat, 8-way power front seats while retaining the 4-way power lumbar support and update the suspension - and make a car that's better than 300M. I don't know why they are not doing that.
#10 of 4431 ruski by etharmon May 08, 2000 (5:23 am)
To answer that last part, Pontiac is doing those things only they are doing them on the Bonneville. The Bonneville, especially the SSEi, is the model which competes best with the 300M. The GP is a bit smaller and priced lower than the 300M.
#11 of 4431 etharmon by ruski May 08, 2000 (3:28 pm)
I still think that Pontiac could add a few nice things to the GTP and keep the price below 300M. Although they might undercut the sales of their own Bonneville... well, they could throw in a few more things into the Bonnie then.
#12 of 4431 Bonneville by kazz May 08, 2000 (9:11 pm)
For the price creep, I was kind of underwhelmed by the Bonneville, especially against competitors like the 300M, which feels and looks more swank. I did test drive the 300M and liked it, but it was $6k more than the GTP's MSRP with the performance package and sunroof. Also, I'm a single guy that doesn't need to haul a family around, so the cab-forward extra space didn't really concern me (though the 300M crash test results did--not too good...). In the end, the option for a 2-door accellerator, along with the lower payments, wooed me over to the GTP. Kazz
#13 of 4431 in defence of 300M by ruski May 08, 2000 (9:24 pm)
the only reason they rated it lower in an offset crash test, was because the dummy hit its head on the steering wheel. At the same time, the dummy in Lexus GS400 also hit its head on the steering wheel but they rated that car high. Also It is not clear if they belted the dummy properly, plus they were using some strange hard/soft barrier that the car's computer got confused by.

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