Last post on Jul 28, 2011 at 8:56 PM
You are in the Pontiac Grand Prix
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac Grand Prix, Sedan
Jul 07, 2003 (8:52 pm)
the element is actually a pretty good vehicle. space, utility, its a box, but then again, its not of bad taste like and AZtek. and then there's the legendary honda reliability. its a versatile hauler.
gunit- i do agree somewhat that they should have had a new coupe grand prix for 204, but I think Pontiac figured the GTO would ultimately give coupe buyers most of what is wanted right now from pontiac that has been missing for so long....a comfortable coupe with the v8 and rear drive. It is tightwaddish for GM not to make companion GP coupe for this new body as so many other makers go to the trouble and even back in 97 Pontiac made the claims that the 4 door and 2 door GP were so similar there were very very few dissimlar parts.
that said, considering how dull and derivative the 2004 turned out it may have actually hurt them PR wise to have a 2 door GP with such a crappy rear seat, cheap plastic, and offers not much new into the automotove market in turems of style, or technology. Making a 2 door GP would have raised the expectation as coupes are to be better than sedans performance wise. So the GTO really becomes the halo car and the car for those who want the coupe.
Maybe the next 'real' Grand Prix will return as a coupe. The 2004 is merely a stop gap which was too far in motion before Lutz could order a clean sheet approach.
The Grand Prix and Sunfire cannot carry the torch for Pontiac performance coupes because they
a) don't perform
b) have no technology. just this year sunfire gets OHC (finally, an engine not better suited to a lawn tractor!). Grand Am's v6 is high tech......for 1986.
c) are ugly
d) have such bad stigmas in the market
e) aren't nice to sit in anyways with the sea of cheap cloth and plastic
f) neither are phat or have street cred
#2694 of 4457 only offered as a point of comparison
Jul 07, 2003 (9:29 pm)
to illustrate how a car can be inexpensive and still have a quality interior
stuff like this alone is a reason why people see GM interiors as flawed, when 'lowly' Fords have nicer interiors than CTS cadillacs.
offered as an example of how much better the GP would be perceived if they had just went a bit further in the interiors department.
Jul 08, 2003 (1:38 am)
The example you show is a BRITISH car, sold in the UK. This is not relevant to an American car.
I don't like the Pontiac GP interior. But, I don't think it fair to compare it to interiors of cars sold in Europe for far higher prices to a much more discriminating audience.
Jul 08, 2003 (3:01 am)
Anyone heard what the 04 GP incentives will be now? GM is now in SummerDrive2 - The Max, which is basically a carryover of incentives on the 03 models.
Jul 08, 2003 (4:33 am)
midlife : No incentives or even much advertising (other than introductory TV spots) on the 04 GP up here. Must be selling ok by itself.
reg : Element is no less odd than the Aztek and no more functional other than you can put stuff into it. It also got poor side impact ratings which means it's likely a death trap if you get hit on the side.
reg : Most of your critic of the GP are yours. Don't confuse your opinion with that of the market. If 260hp doesn't perform, I don't know what does and I somehow doubt you know whats "phat" on the street.
Jul 08, 2003 (5:08 am)
Regfootball, i semi agree with you, But in GTP form the GP does really peform, 0-60 in 6.6 seconds is pretty impressive. The GT 8-8.5 is kind of crappy for a sports sedan. Thankgod they killed the rent a car SE. REAL Grand Prixs were 2 door coupes with V8's and RWD all the way from 1962-1987, I think the first GP sedan arrived in 1990? The 2004 is only a stop gap, NOT A TRUE redesign of the 1997 platform, like many here are inclined to believe. '04 uses the same w body and drivetrain as the 1997, just some updates and improvements, but enough for me. Pontiac claims 80% of the '04 is new, but I have my doubts. Why didn't they reall improve the interior which was the sore point of the '97-'03? They did improve the front seats/leather qaulity and I like then new speedo but that was about it
The 2004 is ok, but is nothing more then a rebadged/reskinned 1997 !!
I moddified my 1997 and 2002 GTP from the stock 240hp to 300+hp, 240hp was NOT enough for me... Those Crappy undersized P225 60 16 Good Year Eagle RSA tires are not good that the GTP came with. I went with P245 50 16, big dif. I also updated the brakes and suspension, after hopping in a regular unmodded GTP it feels slow and sluggish.
Jul 08, 2003 (5:16 am)
For me the new GTO just looks to plain/avg and does NOT have the room my GTP coupe does. Plus I had a new '86 442 with a modes 170hp RWD setup and it was horrible to drive in the snow with RWD, though no TCS back then. I prefer FWD cars in the bad weather, and I considered a WS6 transam in 2002, but too small/cramped and insurance was about 25% higher the then GTP, not a big deal but still. I saw too many hi end RWD Cars, like mercedes lexus having major problems driving in the NY CIty snow this year, while my FWD GTP had nor problem going around them, pretty good for a car 1/2 their price.
Like I said before, all cars have their pluses/minuses, there is NO perfect car out there, esp for me. Everycar has a drawback and with the GTP its the chessy interior and so-so build quality/reliability, that has always plagued the W Body, but I bought it for the cheap price/ good looks/price got and good peformance and decent room. if the GP was a sedan only in 1997-2002 I would NOT have bought it.
Jul 08, 2003 (5:39 am)
Gunit, I never said Pontiac was a poor man's BMW? I think you are mixing me up with someone. I like my car, but I don't see it as anything else but a sporty midsize sedan. It's competitive and I like it's looks better than anything else out there. It also is more than a "re-skin", if you test drive one you will see. The sedan coupe debate is really getting old though. Sedan sales are not what they once were and speculating on why GM killed the coupe could go on forever.
Regfootball, Have you even driven a 04 GP? The car is not aimed at the "phat" crowd.
Midlifecrisis, The centre stack of the GP may be hard plastic but it's matted and nice quality. I'm not sure why people think hard plastic = cheap. I personally like the lay out and I don't think it looks any worse than the Altima, though it's probably not as nice as the Accord.
Jul 08, 2003 (6:47 am)
Yes, i glance through the different car magazines at the store every once and a while to see what they are saying, The only place you'll find an American vehicle winning against the foreign is TRUCKS, because CHEVY, GMC, FORD, and DODGE all team up against the TOYOTA. My wife and I have always owned GM and i find there products are VERY reliable, including the 1997-2003 GP, my wife had a 1997 GTP and for the first year body style we never had problems with it, we no longer have it (leased) but i'd buy another one in a heartbeat. Yet due to the fact that a large majority of GP owners LOVE there car they don't score as high as the Accord, CAMRY, Altima according to the "people" in the magizine.
#2702 of 4457 gmalltheway
Jul 08, 2003 (7:10 am)
I still think GM is close but Honda and Toyota on average are still a bit better in terms of quality. That said, the gap is small and I feel I can pretty much ignore it now. Given the current pricing of US names vs Honda and Toyota, it's VERY unlikely I would ever buy an Accord over a good domestic sedan like the GP.