Last post on Jul 28, 2011 at 9:56 PM
You are in the Pontiac Grand Prix
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac Grand Prix, Sedan
Jul 07, 2003 (8:00 am)
<<Because of an aging product line and consumers' affinities for sport utility vehicles, Pontiac's sales have fallen from 616,000 in 1999 to 517,000 in 2000, their sales fell another 13% from 2002 to 2003, not sure on the sale figures, just the percent.>>
<<. Says Lutz: "We want to make Pontiac an affordable, American BMW.">>
Good luck, they should have tried that awhile ago.
<In time, many Pontiacs will share platforms and suspensions with high-end Cadillacs and Saabs. But it could be years before enough new cars arrive to make a difference.<<
They should have been doing this years ago. Now they have to play big time catch up.
<<Likewise, the new Grand Prix that arrives in showrooms this month was engineered to drive with tight steering and fun handling. But it's built with the same engine and platform as the current 1997-2003 car and with similar styling.>>
True again, not enough changes, just new sheetmetal and little improvements here and there, the 2003 was a much better car with the $3k rebate then the 2004, I own and drive both a 2002 and now 2004 company car
#2674 of 4457 Johnclineii
Jul 07, 2003 (8:06 am)
Why did you trade your 1998 GTP on your 2000 Impala if I may ask? Just curious.
The Mazda 6 sedan is pretty nice, haven't driven one yet.
As I have said before the 2004 GTP doesn't enough improvements over my '97 and current '02 GTP,same drivetrain/same platform, same cheap interior the interior in the '04 GTP is the worst I have ever sat in for a car that MSRP close to $30k loaded, not much of a step above my '97 or '02 interiors. The rebates on the '02 more then made up for the interior.
How can Honda can make a 10x better interior and better reliability for $30k then the GTP can? What is wrong with GM? Sit in a Accord, just as nice as my '01 Infiniti I30t.
The lack of the coupe finally killed it for me,
I amy be going with a GTO in 2006 if is around by then.
#2675 of 4457 Camaro/Firebird
Jul 07, 2003 (8:17 am)
Information on their replacement has been skimpy. I've seen a touched up photo in a car magazine several months ago, and the car looked like the 1st generation Camaro. That was before Lutz and the hype on nostalgic cars started waxing. Thus the design is probably back on the drawing boards...
But if Pontiac is really aiming at becoming more BMW-like, perhaps a RWD Firebird would be a better coupe than the GP. Then again, what do I know?
Jul 07, 2003 (9:33 am)
Gunit - You have owned 2 GTPs and plan on buying an 06 GTO, and you ask what is wrong with GM? What am I missing here?
Check the dimensions on the Monte Carlo door length versus the GP. I'm sure it is quite a bit longer. I overexaggerated the 10' for effect.
I'd bet GM killed the GP coupe to save money, and designed the 04 GP to look like a 2-door. I think they succeeded in that regard, whether it is a good thing or not. Personally I can't deal with a 2-door car, but it is just a matter of suiting your needs. I can't imagine having a 2-door and having to drive co-workers/clients around in it. I would probably buy a Mustang for pleasure driving only, since no one can sit in the back seat anyway.
The only reason I even considered the MC is because I thought it looked sharp in competition yellow, and I don't like the Impala styling at all. But if you have power front seats, they don't slide forward on their tracks, thus you have to fold the seat forward and crawl through a small opening, without strangling yourself on the seat belt. No thanks.
#2677 of 4457 Parking spaces have shrunk
Jul 07, 2003 (9:38 am)
Today's parking spaces are generally required to be 9' x 18', when striped out at a 90-degree angle. They used to be 9' x 20', but with the downsizing of vehicles in the 80's, they shrunk the size of the stalls. Maybe they need to increase their size now due to the big SUVs and trucks on the road. I know my Avalanche barely fits in a stall!
#2678 of 4457 Pontiac becoming BMW like and more:
Jul 07, 2003 (9:41 am)
Pontiac can't be BMW because that is not what the Pontiac Division is for. Cadillac is there to compete with BMW. Pontiac is not meant to be a luxury competitor to the Japanese and European makes. Then what is Cadillac position in GM's lineup if Pontiac becomes a luxury competitor to the Japanese and European makes? Pontiac's brand image is "sporty" not "luxury".
About the interior it is improved from the 97 GP model. I know auto magazines have ripped GM for the interior including one automotive magazine calling one of the interior parts a cheap film camera. The Altima is selling and the interior is not that good. I hope Nissan does something with that interior for the 04 model year.
Jul 07, 2003 (9:47 am)
John, Did you not like the way the 04 Grand Prix drove? i certainly think it's better than the 03.
Gunit, It would be appreciated if you toned down your put downs of the 04. Some of us really like the car and know there is more to it than a lack of a new engine and coupe version. You may not like the car, but telling us 04 owners how bad it is all the time is not needed.
Gunit, Coupes are a dying breed in the midsize world. Here in Toronto downtown (expensive real estate), parking spots are very small so coupes are indeed inconvenient. Of course that does not explain the demise of the coupe. My take on it is sedans are just better looking than they used to be and more convenient so they have taken sales away from coupes.
Midlife, Mote Carlo has a much better dash than the Impala. I was surprised how different it was. GM should put the Monte dash in the Impala, it would be a big improvement.
Jul 07, 2003 (10:31 am)
You keep bringing other types of coupes into your argument. I'm only talking about midsize coupes. Parking spots have indeed gotten smaller. Maybe not true in all areas, but go to an old strip mall and then go to a new mall in the same area around here and you will see what I mean. I have seen it in many other metro areas. Cost of land is a premium so they jam as much as they can on to a lot.
As for loading, having a seperate set of doors is more convenient than a coupe in every sense no matter what you say. I know you can get your kids in/and out, I'm not questioning you fitness. It's a matter of doing it and other things with less effort.
Jul 07, 2003 (10:41 am)
Altima interior is very cheap and it has ugly clear tail lights.
I saw Nissan is offering 0.9% for 60 on it now in the US.
#2682 of 4457 Altima interior is cheap
Jul 07, 2003 (1:05 pm)
Yet no reviewer will hold it against the car since it is a Japanese manufacturer. That's absurd.
I admit GM has produced some cars with crappy interiors. A few I've owned had to have work done on them. But it was under warranty, and a dashboard pad that warps is not something that leaves me stranded on a country road at 2 am.
For me, GM has put quality in the drivetrain and other important components. Yes, I've had a few aggravating fixes done to my GM vehicles, but I still find them to be reliable.