Last post on Jul 28, 2011 at 8:56 PM
You are in the Pontiac Grand Prix
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac Grand Prix, Sedan
#2420 of 4457 '04 GP selling worse then the '02 & "03 GP
Jun 24, 2003 (12:23 pm)
<<<Pontiac's reworked midsize was a big hit from the start. Sales of the '97 model ran more than 50 percent of 1996 levels, though naturally its popularity tapered off later>>>
Killing the coupe lost 20% of the Grand Prix customers... that is why the 2002 outsold the 2003. Right now the 2004 sales are behind the '03's...
The 2004 will never have the sales success over the '03 like the 1997 did over the '96, GP lost me as a future customer by killing the coupe, I will not ever be buying again unless the coupe returns !!
The '04 GTP was supposed to make 280 horse/280 ft lbs torque, it ended up short at 260hp/280 ft lb. GM detuned it to 260 from 280 at the last minute for some reason !!! It wasn't tranny issues... That tranny can take 300hp no problem.. the limit is the 280 torque !!
6yrs later All GM adds is 20 hp to the GTP? Give me a break. 6yrs later and Nissan has added 75 hp to the Altima and max.... Big dif... Why couldn't GM add 75hp? Because they don't want the 3800 making more power then their northstars. which can easily be done... that would be seen as an embarassment for GM. Just like the Grand national was an embarassment back in 1987 to the Corvette, it was faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile on a 3.8L V6, compared to the vettes 5.7L V8. That is also why the 3800 in 1996 was only bumped to 240hp... because Olds had a 250 hp V8... in the '95 aurora.
In fact the 1987 Grand national was GM's fastest car until the ZR1 vette of 1990 took the honor's back. that is why we will not ever see a 300 hp 3800, unless the northstar gets a HP bump. Typical GM...
Jun 24, 2003 (2:05 pm)
3.5L burns no oil in general, a few do but that can be said about any motor.
Can't predict 04 sales yet, far too early in the game.
Like I've said before, MOST people do not dwell on HP numbers like you.
Jun 24, 2003 (2:30 pm)
Most people do not dwell on HP numbers? Are you being funny?
Manufacturers are currently in what amounts to a small race to increase horsepower numbers. To the exclusion of torque, which most people don't even understand.
Horsepower sells. If it didn't, the manufacturers wouldn't be trumpeting their horespower numbers! Comparative ads abound!
HP is a MAJOR selling point for the GTP. Has been since day 1.
Jun 24, 2003 (2:58 pm)
can you find the car and driver tech article on the 3.4 twin dual cam, my magazines are buried in a box i can't get to right now without undue effort. I know for a fact that article refers to the twin dual cam as a reengineered pushrod motor, rather than a quad 4 offshoot as that non-expert website posted above seems to state.
Jun 24, 2003 (3:51 pm)
It does burn oil in many people's Intrigues, several people in the Intrigue problems board have had it burn atleast a quart between changes including myself. It is something that when it happens, seems to show up after the engine has past its childhood though (60,000Miles+).
It sure was a silly error for GM to design and produce this motor and give up on it only after a few years. Not quite an aztek size error though.
Jun 24, 2003 (4:34 pm)
"HP is a MAJOR selling point for the GTP. Has been since day 1. "
I agree. Adding TQ (and I do understand and appreciate TQ) as a critical item as well - important aspects including: peak TQ, rpm of peak TQ, shape of curve and area under the curve.
One reason I am not yet seriously looking at the '04 GTP CompG is: exactly the same TQ level as my '97. The automotive world has changed - a lot - since I bought my GTP. And Pontiac has not kept pace in this area. If the '05 has 300+ HP and 330+ TQ, I will be MUCH more likely to consider writing a check . . .
Wondering what else will be available 'next year' on the market.
#2426 of 4457 Coupe Wanted? Orders being taken
Jun 24, 2003 (5:59 pm)
For those interested in the new GTO, Pontiac is taking advanced Orders:
I'm working this week in Boston, living with a 2004 GT... much better to have for a few days than just a test drive. I'm finding some of my earlier impressions changing. Will post opinions once my date is over.
Jun 24, 2003 (6:27 pm)
johnclineii : No I'm not joking. Most people don't. I know lots of car guys and none of them go on comparing HP numbers. It's certainly on thing they would mention but not dwell on. That said, the GTP has indeed been about the HP and for some that's their priority. I would guess that the VAST majority of people you asked on the street couldn't even tell you how many HP their car's engine produces.
vcjumper : Only a few oil burners, not "many".
Jun 24, 2003 (8:02 pm)
A 91 W-body with the 3.4 DOHC V6 was a great performer for it's day no doubt and yes, probably about as quick as a current day Intrigue. But, part of the Intrigue's beauty is how smooth and refined it feels and sounds at full throttle. Aside from the platform's shortcomings, the engine really makes the Intrigue feel like a more expensive car. The old 3.4 may have been quick, but it seemed to lack refinement. This is pretty obvious if the pushrod 3800 was chosen as the better engine for first year Intrigues. As for Intrigue sales, 98 and 99 were both very good years sales wise. In 00 sales slipped a bit then in 01 took a nose dive. I guess cancelling the entire brand certainly won't help sales.
Jun 24, 2003 (8:20 pm)
Lets take a trip back in time! I've got the October 1990 isuue of MT in front of me. In it you will find new car reviews on such forgotten cars like the Buick Roadmaster, a spy shot of the upcoming 92 Bonneville, the Chevy Lumina Z34 coupe(this review included a write-up on the DOHC 3.4), Dodge Spirit R/T(224 h, 0-60 in 6.8 seconds), Dodge Stealth R/T turbo, and Chrysler's first redesign of the mini-vans. The article is too long for me to re-type here(I don't have a scanner) but I'll post some of the highlights. "The twin Dual Cam (TDC) V6 purposely relies on proven technology to offer customers the utmost in reliability and excellent performance at a reasonable price. In fact, the basic architecture of the engine- bore center, V-angle, and deck height dimensions- is common with the 2.8-3.1 family of General Motors V6 engines that have existed for more than a decade"..... "The application of four overhaed camshafts necessitated a completely new two-stage drive system. To cut crankshaft speed in half and power the spur-gear oil pump, GM engineers devised an "intermediate" shaft that spins in the original(3.1 liter) camshaft location"..."The 3.1 liter V6's distributorless ignition is used without modification"...and the closing paragraph of the review began "The 3.4 liter Twin Dual Cam by GM won't send Ferrari, Yamaha, or Nissan back to their dynamometer cells..." In MT's test of a 91 Lumina Z34 coupe with the 5 speed manual, 0-60 was 7.5 with the 1/4 in 15.8. Idling in neutral they reported the car's noise level was 50 db and a steady 60 MPH in top gear was 66 dBA. Engine specs were 210 HP 5200 RPM and 215 lb-ft torque 4400 RPM.