Last post on Jan 21, 2011 at 10:46 AM
You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
What is this discussion about?
Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, Sedan
Oct 02, 2003 (12:41 pm)
You might want to try current generation Taurus- seats may be different from your 99 as they redesigned all but the doors in 2000. Kept the optional Duratec however-has slightly more HP than your 99 also. Yes it is a very good engine.
Note the 300M is a nice car, but is becoming an orphan- I believe Chrysler is replacing it with a 300C rear wheel drive-the Mercedes influence. 300M may depreciate fast as well.
I had a rental low mileage 300M this summer for a weeks vacation and it was a nice car, but I don't think it is all that much better than my Taurus SES with the 24 valve DOHC Duratec, especially when I doubt if you would touch a new 300M for under say $25-$27K?????? That's just a guess on my part as I have never seriously priced one out.
If you really want to save some bucks, find a leftover new 2003 Taurus. With the rebates you can get them well loaded for several thousand south of $20K. Depreciation doesn't mean much to me, especially when I can bank the $5K-$6K I have saved over by not buying a V-6 Camcord. Use that money toward the next one. Money not spent up front does not depreciate!
On the other hand, I don't rack up the miles you do, so depreciation may be more important to you.
Want to move up and stay in the Ford Family? How about a Lincoln LS? Due to the "Domestic is Junk" fervor in the press, a leftover 2003 can be had pretty inexpensively with big rebates as well, especially if you stay with the base V-6 model, which also has an upscale version of that trusty 3 litre Duratec.
#2454 of 3389 Taurus / Lincoln LS
Oct 02, 2003 (2:01 pm)
I have actually test driven the Lincoln. There are three reasons I would not buy it: 1) Appearance - I sell municipal equipment. Pull up in a Lincoln and a lot of mayors/cities will be asking themselves whether or not they are paying too much for your stuff. 2) I'd get a ticket in that Lincoln faster than you can say boo! 3) For the money, I can't see that it's better than a 300M. The 300M seems to have decent performance and let's face it, all leather seats and sunroof look about the same. I can get a 300M with satellite radio and in dash DVD/Nav system for $30,700 (not counting rebate original MSRP is almost $35K). I'm at least $10K higher with a Lincoln - and I don't think any of those features are built in for that price.
When you put 25-30K miles a year on a car you don't really give a crud about depreciation. The Taurus will go down much much quicker since a lot of these are available as rentals and corp. cars. I watched my old '99 Taurus go from an original purchase price of $18.3 K (7/01/2000) to $7.4K (9/18/2003) when I was hit four years and 95K miles later. Still not too bad though, came out $3.2K ahead.
I believe the secret to avoiding depreciation is negotiating a good car deal in the first place ...
Oct 02, 2003 (2:24 pm)
That's an excellent point, badger. Everybody jumps on the bandwagon about depreciation - money not spent up front does not depreciate. I may do a regression analysis on that someday to see what the true impact is between a Taurus and an Accord.
#2456 of 3389 Taurus depreciation is bad regardless
Oct 02, 2003 (2:36 pm)
You can buy a new Taurus and get a big discount and big rebate and still lose a huge amount on depreciation compared to an Accord. You can also get a discounted Accord, just no rebates.
The only way to really minimize the worst of the Taurus depreciation is to buy a 1 or 2 year old model. You may be able to pick up a used 2002 Taurus SES for about $11K now. If the dealers are selling them for $11k, you would be lucky to get 9K trade-in value. The value is still spiralling down even after two years, but at a slower pace per year. (If it continued at that depreciation pace much longer, it would have a negative value!)
Even if you buy a brand new 2004 SES with the base Vulcan engine for invoice of $20412 minus the $1000 rebate, that's still $19412 plus the taxes. Expect to lose at least $6K in one year even if you got it for a "invoice minus rebate" deal.
Can you imagine if someone actually paid near the MSRP of $22040 for a bases SES with no options?!
#2457 of 3389 2002 SES for $11,500
Oct 02, 2003 (5:15 pm)
As S852 stated, you can most definitely get a 2002 SES for $11K or so now. Two months ago, on 1 August, I bought a 2002 SES with 21K miles for $11,500 before my trade-in, with standard SES equipment, along with two new tires, new windshield wipers, oil change, etc. They listed in the $13Ks. This is not to say that I necessarily got the world's best price-- I'm new to the car-buying game and though I did my research, I doubt I got the best deal out there. I'm sure you can get a better price now. If geographical area can influence price, as I imagine it can, my area is the Southeast U.S., despite my username.
Another comment is this: when shopping, I narrowed it down to two cars, much like it seems vacman1 is doing. I was deciding between a Saturn L200 and a Taurus SES, of the same year and of comparable mileage. When it came down to it, I got the car of lesser quality/options (the Saturn L200) dealer to get down to their "lowest" price, and decided the evening that my boyfriend and I went to the Ford dealer, if we could get them to commit to that "low" price, then I would buy the car, as it's nicer. And that's what happened. Maybe not the most logical/informed approach, but I like having some range of vehicles to choose from, and I was very happy with the end result. Buying a car is really such a game anyway, though unfortunately it's really no fun for the buyer until they have the prize, and it's fun for the dealers, who are secretly laughing in everybody's face anyway, the entire time.
Oct 02, 2003 (7:19 pm)
I get the same feeling, Chicago, that I never really win, I just get a car......
Oct 02, 2003 (10:17 pm)
Hi Everone, I am new to this forum but have enjoyed reading it for the last few days. I have not seen any messages refering to a factory installed handsfree phone system.I bought my 2001 SES Taurus with one last August.My hubby and I were shopping for a Taurus (my choice,first time I got to pick the car in 30 years)and we came across the one we finally agreed upon. The only thing that was wrong was the ugly phone holder in the fold down cup holder. But the price was right and the color was right and it drove fantastic, so we bought it.I told hubby he better figure out how to get rid of the phone holder and he agreed,(small dealership, not Ford and nobody knew anything about the phone).Black antenna attached to the rear window. Well anyways, turns out it holds a standard Nokia phone, and when you recieve a call,you talk in the air and you here your caller thru the speakers!It is crystal clear and your radio or cd shut off when a call comes in and starts back up when call is finished. I just love it! It is one of my favorite things about the car now. I am just wondering if anyone else has one and do they love it as much as me. Thank gosh hubby didnt remove it. We didnt have a phone at the time and asked my Daughter to see if hers fit and low and behold it did. Next day ran out and bought a phone, even the phone dealer was clueless, but very much impressed when he heard it in motion.
Oct 02, 2003 (10:56 pm)
Briefly, I doubt that there ever will be a Honda/Toyota/Nissan collectors club. However there are still Model A's and T's and later vintage Fords/Mercurys/Lincolns still out there and being enjoyed by their owners.
The Asian makes are designed to last X miles with little or no trouble. Yes, they may make it to XXX,XXX miles if they don't rust to pieces in the meantime. If they are so utterly reliable and trouble-free, why do the dealers bother to employ mechanics and require service appointments far in advance?
American cars are designed for our driving styles and conditions. If one thinks that they are superior, simply check some of the other bulletin boards to verify their reputations.
#2461 of 3389 Depreciation / Car Deals
Oct 03, 2003 (8:05 am)
As has been stated several times already there is really only one way to avoid excessive depreciation and that's to let someone else take the 25-30% hit the first year on the car price while you buy used.
I do think however, you can minimize this hit on a new car if you are smart when you do your shopping. For instance, I recently test drove a 300 M and liked it. Immediately, of course, the salesman wants to make a deal to get me in it because the "rebates might be going down since it was the month's end." I waited, in fact, still haven't bought and now that same dealer is having a huge sale with bigger rebates a few days later.
Now do you think the salesman told me this sale would be coming up? No way! Do you think he knew? You bet your sweet patootie he did. That's one dealer I won't be purchasing from.
I have found that the best way to take the dealers on is to play their own game with them. Patience is the key. Go to 4 or 5 (or more) local dealers and give them the intention you will buy soon (2 wks / 1 month or so). Walk around with them and check out some of the cars you're interested in. Comment very slyly that you think the MSRPs seem high, or that so and so dealer (you don't even need to mention a name) says he can provide model X for a price you set. This does two things: 1) it establishes that you aren't a sucker; 2) it tells you whether the dealer is the kind that will lower the MSRP.
If the dealer wont budge on MSRP - walk right off the lot. This isn't the kind of dealer you want to be doing business with anyway. On the other hand, you may get the result I got recently which was to be offered a very loaded car for an employee price, when I am not an employee of D/C. You'd be surprised what a salesman will do to get you in a car if they are desperate enough.
Once you've agreed on a sale price - or at least you have the price in your mind leave the dealership! Take the salesmans card and negotiate the financing at home over the telephone or by fax! You'll feel less pressure to sign anything in a controlled environment. Remember that as far as you are concerned the sales price and the financing are two seperate issues.
Use Edmunds price calculator to evaluate the financing terms of a deal before signing anything. For example, a $30,700 car ($35K MSRP) with a $2000 rebate sounds like a great deal until you find out they want 4.9% interest for the financing. It's better to take the same car at 0% for 60 months. Know your credit rating before negotiating a finance deal. Some dealers will say you can't get the 0% financing because of a "bad credit" score - which is illegal by the way. And hold out for 0% / 60 months because a lot of dealers will give you that if your credit is 650 or over, and it means a substantially smaller car payment most of the time vs. rebates.
Another optional method I've used with great success is to talk to 4-5 dealers, get the salesmans card and then fax a bid form to all of them highlighting the car model, features you want and financing terms. You dictate all of these and put the names of the other salesman on the fax and then see who bites. Give them one shot to submit their "best price" to you via fax. This is how public works projects are bid and it is a highly successful method that often results in substantial savings to you. Plus, when you enter the dealer to sign papers you already have a form of a written contract, so it's very difficult for them to retract the promises later.
A second major advantage of this method is that if you are a shy person (no worries for me though) you'll have more bargaining power and feel less obligated to give in to the pressure in the sales office. The worst thing one can do is go into a car salesman's office to sign anything!!!!! Make them do it in the open air tables on the show floor because if they think someone else might be watching, it plays on their conscience if the papers are being signed outside the security of their cubes. I know a lot of you think salesman have no conscience, but believe me most all of them do! The ones that don't can usually be ferreted out by trying to negotiate on MSRP.
#2462 of 3389 Vacman and seats
Oct 06, 2003 (4:28 am)
You might want to look for a Taurus/Sable with the floor shifter and bucket seats. I'd heard that the standard seat (with the column shifter) was uncomfortable when I was looking for my '98 Taurus in 2000. It has buckets, and I've been in several rentals newer than mine with the regular seat. The comments are true--my car is much more comfortable than cars with the standard seat--even new ones.
If you buy new, I think it's a $90 option to get the floor shifter and buckets (unless they moved packages around and you can't get it alone), or the SES comes with it. Used cars may be a bit tougher to find with buckets.
Just keep it a while to avoid the depreciation if you don't intend to keep it until the wheels fall off!