Last post on Jan 21, 2011 at 10:46 AM
You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
What is this discussion about?
Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, Sedan
Mar 03, 2003 (11:32 am)
It is interesting to read in Mary Walton's "Car: A Drama of the American Workplace" (it is inside look to developement of 1996 Ford Taurus, so called DN101) how things were in late 80s and early 90s. Very similar btw. Camry wasn't competitor yet though (it was a compact econobox then) and main competitor was Accord. She writes that 40% of Accords were sold to fleets compared to 60% of Taurus. Not a big difference IMHO. I also resently noticed that Hertz actually is selling 2002 Accords (never saw it before). The price (it is fixed) is $14,600 - $18,000 for 4 cylinder with 25,000 miles. 2002 Camry - $15,000 -$15,500; Taurus/Sable - $11,000. In our area there are about 33 Accord available, the same amount of Taurus/Sable and twice as much Camries (55).
The price difference I can explain as Accord and Camry having more superior engine (even being 4 cylinder) and transmission compared with that damned Vulcan and AX4S on all rental Tauruse/Sables and having higher quality/ more reliable perseption blah-blah-blah. But that Accord is overestimated - there is no question about it. Now the point is that it is a myth that Taurus is a fleet car and Accord and Camry are not. They are and were (at least Accord according to Mary Walton was since 80s, 40% is a big number). She also writes about Accord owners. According to Walton they were 40 years old in average compared with 50 years for Taurus in 1991, kind a brainwashed yuppies who kept silent about problems with their cars, bought it because everyone else did and praise it because well you had to do it not to look stupid.
In Europe btw Accord never was popular and there was a reason why. It is kind of another stipud American cult. Everyone who drove Audi and then Accord will understand what I mean.
Mar 03, 2003 (4:52 pm)
the Accord has never at any time approach anything close to 40% in fleet sales. the Accord didn't achieve its reputation and popularity because of brain washed yuppies either. do you really want to get into a demographic comparison between Accord and Taurus owners?
Mar 04, 2003 (2:17 pm)
is Camry and Accord are deemed to be better by a large enought segment of the population to demand a price premium. I personally didn't think it was worth the extra cash when I bought my Taurus used in 98.
Are they superior in engineering? Maybe, but I don't care; same as I don't care if their 4 bangers are superior to the Vulcan. I was interested in the bottom line. When I checked an Accord out in 98 it was going to cost me 300 more a year to insure, so I'm over 1,500 ahead at this point. And are you going to tell me that their fours are that inspiring to drive on a dailey basis? I could care less. I wanted something afforable, reliable and durable. So far I haven't been disappointed.
I wouldn't say that only yuppies buy Accords and Camries; but I will say that some people who buy those cars are clueless. They are surprised when they need repairs. They are good and have earned their reps; don't know if you get that premium purchase cash back.
Mar 04, 2003 (3:21 pm)
"Accord has never at any time approach anything close to 40% in fleet sales"
How do you know for sure to make this kind of statement? Did you work for Honda in 80s or was industry insider or made a market research ?
I'm sure Mary Walton did some reseach before writing a book, that's her job man. BTW you can go to Hertz website and check for youself that 30 previous rental Accords, the same number as Tauruses are currently on sale in East bay area, it is a big number btw. Here is the link:
Statement about yuppies is from book too. I tend to believe that yuppies drive Audi or other German cars, or at least Acura rather than boring Accord. I don't know any yuppie driving Camcord/Taurus. But who knows.
Mar 04, 2003 (3:23 pm)
i would say no car manufacturer is exempt from having clueless buyers.
Mar 04, 2003 (3:28 pm)
take my word for it, nothing close to 40%. not even 10%.
Mar 04, 2003 (6:39 pm)
May be now. But Mary was talking about late 80s and early 90s. Fleet sales doesn't mean rental only. And why I have to believe you instead of Mary Walton, is there reason ?
#2156 of 3389 Used 2002 Taurus with ESP vs new 2003 Elantra
Mar 09, 2003 (9:23 pm)
I plan to buy a car for cash that I can drive for the next 5 years while I go back to school full time.
For $11K I could buy a 2002 Taurus SES former rental with about 28K miles, the standard engine, CD, ABS and power seat.
For $12500 after rebate I could get pretty loaded Elantra with even more equipment (except power seat).
The Taurus will be bigger, quieter, more comfortable and safer, but will only gave 8K miles left on warranty and will be showing the wear of being a former rental. It will also be $1500 cheaper. I'm not sure that savings is worth the future repair costs.
For $2K I could buy the Ford ESP plan with 100K mile Bumper to Bumper coverage and zero deductable. This now makes the Taurus $500 more and it is still a used rental compared to a brand new Elantra. I don't know if the ESP plan will provide coverage on the former rental because I won't have proof the scheduled maintenance was done by the rental company,
Which is the better choice? It looks like a new Elantra makes more sense.
Mar 10, 2003 (2:46 pm)
Choosing the car is very subjective. Elantra is a good car, but you will discover pretty soon that it is a cheap car, it is just feeling that you get. Well I would choose used but more upscale car for the same money.
Elantra will have better fuel economy. But it is not a family car, it is not as safe as Taurus. Taurus is a family car in contrast and pretty safe and reliable. Okay because it is Taurus forum lets talk anout Taurus. I was in a situation to buy almost new used Sable and the best solution I found was the certified used Ford/Mercury. Ford gives extended warranty and that adds about $800 to the price. The idea is that only best used cars are supposed to be sold under this program. I was looking for Duratec engine and couldn't find Sable with this engine that match color and milage I wanted. Anyway Sable is more unique car than Taurus and more difficult to find, so I bought new Sable in the end.
I was shopping in Hertz too and Sables I tested had one or another type of defect, despite they asserted that they picked the best cars, fixed all defects and blah-blah-blah. It simply wasn't true. But anyway they don't have Dutatec. Well I believe that Ford sells worst cars to fleets. But I know also people who bought previous rental Taurus and are happy. Also go to Carfax (sometimes it is free on dealers website). Car's history contains a lot of hints, e.g. why someone buys the car and sells it only after 3 month.
I have Ford ESP on my Sable, driving a lot so 36,000 is not enough for me. It cost me ~ $1000 for 5/100,000.
#2158 of 3389 Will get Hertz Taurus
Mar 12, 2003 (6:15 pm)
I went to the Hertz car sales place and they had one that did look surprising clean and had a little less miles than typical. I looked at the service history and saw the maintenance and repairs that had already been done on it. It did have warranty repairs done and that made be rethink the purchase, but I decided to go ahead. I would never have known what repairs had been done if I bought from anywhere else, so at least I know what I'm getting. I test drove it for 30 minutes and it drives perfectly.
It was a 2002 SES with the standard engine (would have liked the Duratec for an extra kick for passing, but the standard engine was adequate). The car has 24K miles, power seat, CD player, ABS and alloy wheels. The price was listed as $10,995, but there is a special this weekend for AAA members for an extra $300 off. So I left a deposit and will come back over the weekend and pick up the car for $10695. TTL and the $0 deductible warranty that adds 5 years and 70K miles coverage starting from the day I buy the car (meaning it is covered till it is 6 years old or has 94K miles) made the out the door price $13K. Looks like a good deal.
I'm selling my "old" 2002 Accord EXV6 coupe to CarMax right before I go to pick up the Taurus in a few days. Then the Hertz salesperson will come and pick me up so I can collect the Taurus. CarMax already gave me a written offer, so I'm going back to take them up on it before the 7 days it is valid expires.
I tried going to another dealer that had several similar Taurus SES sedans that were also prior rentals to see if they could match the CarMax trade quote and the Hertz price so I could save the hassle of dealing with two different dealerships, but they wanted $11999 for their car and we didn't even get to the point of talking about the extended warranty.
$13K out the door with 5 years left of B2B warranty (minus maintenance items and a small list of exclusions) and no deductible feels like a really good deal for a good looking, comfortable and safe 1 year old car.