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#264 of 1709 heckle2.....commen sense by protegextwo Aug 18, 2000 (9:09 pm)
My opinion, only! There is no such thing as a good NEW car for $11,000. There is one possible exception, a modestly trimmed out 2000 Toyota Echo. There is a problem with laying out $11,000 of your hard earned cash, it's called BUILD QUALITY. The domestic car manufactures can't produce a new vehicle in that price range, with any decent build quality, or for that matter reliability/re-sale value! The better import manufactures (Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Volkswagen, and Subaru) choose not to build vehicles in the $11,000 price range, they don't have too! There small cars start in the $13,000 to $14,000 range because of there competent build quality, excellent re-sale value and impeccable reliability.  My 2 cents, don't go "ass and elbows" off any Korean or Dodge dealers lot with a NEW $11,000 car! You will be raped when it's time to sell or trade, and you will spend; a lot of time while under warranty and money when the warranty runs out, with your new best friend, the dealers service advisor. Don't take my word, educate your-self, read Consumer Reports, Car&Driver or Motor Trend; their concerns are the same; the Neon and Elantra are inherently mediocre and have many shortcomings. Heckle2, if $11,000 is your budget, look at a good/newer low mileage used car. Buying used, gets you lots of car for a lot less money. If you go with a newer/used car, dependability should be your first concern! Some recommended, used vehicles in the $10,000 to $11,000 range, 1998 Toyota Corolla, 1997/98 Honda Civic, 1997/98 Mazda Protege, and a 1997/98 Subaru Impreza. Good luck, heckle2. respectfully, Protegextwo
#265 of 1709 Point made... by vocus Aug 18, 2000 (9:11 pm)
It seems there are a lot less problems with the Japanese small cars than with the American ones. I don't hear about 1995-97 Mazda, Toyota, or Honda blowing head gaskets like the Neons do. I do like the 2000 Neon, but would put more stock in the reliabilty and resale value of a Protege than I would a Neon.
#266 of 1709 Vocus, Protegextwo by mobay Aug 19, 2000 (12:22 am)
HI, I don't hear much about 1995-97,Mazda,Toyota,or Honda blowing head gaskets like Neons do,but I have heard about distributors transmissions ,electrical problems with them. I also have not heard of any head gasket problems with the 2K Neon..,,have you? And I'm also sure YOU would put more stock in the reliability and resale value of a Protege' than a Neon. However, since we are talking about an Elantra vs. a Neon , how does the Protege' come into the picture? Old rhetoric (and habits) die hard huh? I keep forgetting.., Vocus.., you really DO like the Neon. Those were your words, not mine. As for the accuracy of test reports from Consumer reports, they stated that the acceleration of the 2K Neon was "sluggish".  Now, who in this newsgroup who has driven a Neon ,even you Vocus ,would ever, in their right mind say the Neon is "sluggish"? Maybe they had the hand brake up, or the A/C "ON"(some believe the latter), but "sluggish"??.., I thinketh not. I'll go one step further. Consumer Reports gave the 95-99 Neon a "best buy" rating in their annual Used Car Review.What the hell???? I gave up on Consumer Reports a long time ago. As for Car and Driver, heaven forbid if they are biased in ANY way towards a particular make! They are not influenced at all by advertising dollars, and all of their reviews can be taken as absolute truth. Believe that, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn,that I can sell you cheap...,really! As for build quality, is'nt it a like early to paint a picture of ALL Neons or ALL Elantra's until there is hard data to prove it. Once again, is it "I've got a car and I love/hate it so therefore all of them are good/bad", or do we have hard facts? We're giving advice on Neon vs. Elantra.Lets stick to those two vehicles.I know you guys love your vehicles ,(and I love mine) but lets talk about the strengths and weaknesses of just those two.
#267 of 1709 do dah do dah...... by importfighter Aug 19, 2000 (1:01 am)
Here we go with the same ol song and dance, you know I hear all about the negative aspects of the neon from 95-00 model years about build quality and resale value. As with any car, build quality will improve over time,usually evolutionary vs revoultionary- ok stick with me here folks, the neon is only 5 years old and nobody can say it has'nt made dramtic leaps forward in overall quality-absolutely nobody! Many of the foreign competitors cars have been on the road for 2 sometimes 3 times as long and obviously have had time to improve upon the original much longer than the neon. Comparing the first neons with the 2000 model neon is apples to oranges fellas, and in such a short time of 5 years DC has busted their butts to catch up to the competition and somebody should commend them but all I hear is negative aspects of the car as if it were the ONLY car with them! I can say unequivically that there IS a conspiracy against the neon and presumably dodge because they have a strong hold on the domestic car market today and it's getting better. I see more and more new neons on the road everyday so somebody has "common sense" out there. To hell with all the negative stories and reports from worthless car magazines, they have the consistency of water and about as shallow.It's time we give DC a thumbs up and if you disagree than you're more diluted than I thought.
#268 of 1709 the best years by hersbird Aug 19, 2000 (3:19 am)
The best neons are the 98's and 99's by far. I am not believeing the crap thrown around here. Resale value- my loaded (except for auto tranny) 98 neon cost me $11500 new and would sell in a reasonable amount of time for $9000 or I could get about $8000 trade in at 2 different dealers I checked at 2 months ago. Mileage- I get an average of mostly up and down, stop and go short trips of 30 mpg. This is lead footing it all the time and for comparison my Jeep GC 4.0 gets 11 mpg in the same trips. We have gotten a best of 53 MPG overall average from Eureka, CA to Missoula, MT when we moved. BTW these numbers (and the EPA ratings equal the 'green' toyota ECHO with its 'amazing it can even move' squirrel powered motor. Elantra better acceleration and skidpad- no way, you are going to have to provide magazine testing proof for that claim. I'll admit my stock goodyears are a huge weak link in an otherwise awesome suspension but I have never seen a elantra run anything near a neon at an SCCA event. There is much more to handling then just skidpad numbers. Acceleration of a 98 DOHC neon 5 speed pure stock is anywhere from 15.5 to 16.2 in the 1/4 mile with the average being 15.8. Don't anyone try and pass off 0-60 times here as they are basically unreliable at displaying which car would actually be leading at 60 MPH, many times a 'faster' 0-60 car will be looking at the 'slower' 0-60 car's taillights. Problems on old neon- not here, not with the other 3 at my work. Mine has not been completely flawless but I've said before the few minor problems I've had and how quickly they were fixed. Haven't heard about other car problems- you haven't been looking, Toyota v-6's had more problems with thier head gaskets then the neon's did. Honda's have electrical problems. Mazda's are infected with neon inferiority complex, I could go on but just look then up on carpoint or something, the problems are all there. New neons can still be bought for under $10000, but they do start getting pricy. I could have gotten a R/T when I bought my Sport for $300 more with otherwise the same options, add a automatic and the most expensive previous neon was $12500. The current model has crept up too much the last few years. I agree with somebody avove who said don't fork the cash over on a new 2001 and buy used. Just don't get that still overpriced import, a 14000 mile 99 R/T could most likely be found for under $10000. If you want to pay more for imaginary superman build quality and 'impeccable' reliability, for a boring looking, lackluster performing import then believe the hype. I personally go with a Honda- the official car for people who can't think for themself.
#269 of 1709 Neon... by jmn2786 Aug 19, 2000 (4:38 am)
I just wanted to say my loaded 2K 5sp is still runing great at 12k miles. Every option except the auto. Volkswagons have more problems than Chrysler! I think it was (JD power Initial Quality? 1999,2000)that said they had the most problems in the first year of ownership than ANY other small car make! Chrysler was in the upper half of that survey. I also picked the Neon over the Jetta VR6, Cougar V6, Focus, Protege, Civic, and Corolla. It offers a great package. The Echo is too ugly to be a good car. I woudn't be caught dead in that thing! It may be a good econo-box, but I would definitely go used before I bought one. Most likely small car to roll over, and it has very little hip room.
#270 of 1709 Mobay... by vocus Aug 19, 2000 (5:35 am)
I would put more stock in an Elantra now, because of their superior warranty. I like the Neon, Protege, and Elantra, but all cars have their share of problems. And the Echo is not too bad, if a little cramped in front for me (at 6'3). I drove one yesterday, and it was kinda neat. Anyway, I do agree that the acceleration WITH auto. isn't sluggish at all. I prove that every morning when I floor the pedal to merge onto the Capital Beltway. Always kicks to first and then redlines. By then, I am going 70-80. Great power. Only thing I would change is the refinement level. And all cars have first year bugs, and hopefully they will be worked out for 2001.
#271 of 1709 Jmn2786 HI Guy by mobay Aug 19, 2000 (5:52 am)
HI, WOW!, another 2K 5sp.ES owner. Glad to see I'm not alone.I just completed stage II of my performance mods on my 2K. I have bypassed the resonator box behind the LFF and gotten both a high-flow air filter (Maxspeed) and a performance muffler (a friend in Mexico sent it to me). I of course disconnected the battery for 20 minutes to erase the computer's memory, so it could learn about the mods. It will adjust the fuel/ignition/spark to suit the mods.That takes 123miles. My 2K is much faster than it was stock. It flies!! The beauty is that the total cost is $352.00.I measured 7.2 for 0-60MPH with a electronic meter (G-FORCE ) so I'm very happy. Well,fellas I'm off to bed. Gonna be going to Howell Automotive in Keyster WV. for his open house.Lots of Neon enthusiasts will be there. IF you're in the neighborhood.., drop in! You too Vocus, the Neon guy's will love to meet you.I'm sure.
#272 of 1709 VOCUS by copperhead1 Aug 19, 2000 (4:09 pm)
THIS IS A NEON TOPIC!! CAN´T YOU UNDERSTAND IT????   WHY DON´T YOU LEAVE US ALL HERE WITH OUR CRAP NEONS;AND YOU BETTER GO TO YOUR MAZDA´S TOPIC??  I CAN´T BELIEVE IT,YOU DON¨T LIKE THE CAR BUT YOU ARE HERE,AND ALSO IN THE STRATUS AND OTHER TOPICS;KEEP MOVING TAKE MY ADVICE!!!!!!!
#273 of 1709 Hersbird.......... by protegextwo Aug 19, 2000 (5:34 pm)
Bryan, I agree with your opinions on the Honda Civic, %100. This is not a sedan, I would purchase. My wife and I test drove both the Civic LS and ES in March, 2000. Very boring for the price $.  But,.. I strongly disagree with your "imaginary superman" build quality and reliability comments/opinions. Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Volkswagen build vehicles with better build quality, better dependability, and hence much better resale value; then the domestic auto manufactures. The imports cost more up-front, but are a better value in the long run. Just my 2 cents, as I expressed my advise to heckle2. Respectfully, Larry

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