Last post on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:54 PM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Sedan
Dec 03, 2000 (3:29 am)
elantra: I beg to differ on your comment that an abused Civic won't make it past 40-50k. We personally bought an abused 89 Honda Civic with 108k on it and drove it until 124k at which point I gave it to my sister who drove it for about another 20k and then traded it for a 1999 Civic. When we bought it it was not running because the timing belt had broken, the paint job was interesting to say the least, broken windshield, valve cover was in the hatch of the wagon, needed brakes, and 2 CV axles but we bought it for $550. With a total of $1500 it ran just like new and went to Florida, Ohio, anywhere we wanted to go including Canada with confidence. I wouldn't even buy a 98 Hyundai with that much wrong with it. But hey, a 1998 Hyundai wouldn't be worth the $1500 anyways. We also bought an abused 1990 Acura Integra with 132k for $2500. It had 3 different sized tires on it, the exhaust was falling off, the underside was brown due to all of the mud and dust (previous owner apparently lived off of a dirt road of some kind) and yet with about $800 total including timing belt and a CV axle we drove it to 166k and sold it for $3800. So just as you have your stories of abused Hondas I have my stories of abused Hondas. There would be stories of abused Hyundais brought back to life as were my Hondas but any abused Hyundai is sitting in the junkyard unable to tell it's story because they are worth so little the cost of repair is not justified.
bri70: No my idea of good research is knowing the facts and being able to back them up. A comparably equipped '01 Honda Civic LX is about $2,800 more than a '01 Elantra. According to www.kbb.com the Civic is worth $4800 more (98 w/ 30,000 example used) and according to Intellichoice is the among the least expensive cars to own over a 5 year period. Impressive considering how overpriced they seem to some people. So after 2 years you will have made back the extra $2,800 and made an extra $2,000.
The Tiburon keeps getting redesigned because of the hideousness of the thing. I'm sure more than one of Hyundai's designers saw a picture their 3 year old nephew drew and were like "hey that looks cool" then saw it actually going down the street and almost wrecked their cars because of the instantaneous vomitting and convulsions the Tiburon causes.
luifei: There are some major differences between comparing an RL to the Mercedes (the RL competes with the E-class by the way not the S-class), BMW 528, and the Lexus LS430 has left the RL's class in terms of engine AND price. It starts out at $58,000 vs the RL's price of $38,000. A Lexus GS300 is more comparable to the RL in terms of price, size, and engine and even it costs $9,000 more than the RL. The Mercedes E class starts out at $10,000 more for an E320.
But the biggest difference is that while the Hyundai falls flat on it face when comparing reliability and resale to the Civic the RL actually meets or exceeds all of it's competitors in resale and reliability. In the last JD Powers the RL was ranked THE most trouble-free car in initial quality.
And another fact that a little bit of research on your end would have produced is that Honda just overtook Nissan to become the #3 automaker in Japan. And Honda's limited resources have brought us cars like the S2000 (accolades), the Odyssey (accolades), the Insight (accolades), the CVT transmission (accolades), the MDX (accolades), the Type-S CL (accolades), the Accord (accolades including being named a 10 best car 15 out of 18 years by Car & Driver), the Type R (accolades). Geez...I'd hate to see what they would be capable of if their resources weren't "limited".
#455 of 1641 re:acuragr
Dec 03, 2000 (5:26 am)
The 2001 RL MSRP is 42K while LS430 is 54K, only
12K difference instead of 20K. There's approximately 23% price difference between them,
similar to the difference between Elantra GLS and
Civic EX, and you get that V8 in the LS430, while
the Elantra at the very least has all the standard
features of the EX and a better engine than the
Civic, so why cant we compare them?
The GS430 start 47K, more of a direct competitor
for the RL, at least pricewise, although V8 vs V6
translate to no contest in performance, and the
E320 start 47K, only 5K differences not 9K & 10K.
Get your fact (or at least your calculator)
straight first before telling other to do so, (I thought you as a car salesman has to be at least proficient with the calculator?? Hope you dont mess up too many deals with wrong calculation). ^__^
At least you willing to admit that the RL really
can't compete with the LS. Unlike some of Acura's
owner who keep thinking that RL is a worthy
competitor of the LS, and shunned when people
compared it to the GS like you just did.
With the financial trouble that Nissan had in the
past years, are you really surprised that their
production & sales drop? They have to cutback,
especially with new management in there.
Also, Honda's posted a decline in revenue (around
10-15%) due to yen valuation and stronger competition (can't recall exact number), while Toyota gain 10% in revenue.
When their resources aren't limited, maybe they
can try to catch Toyota's shadow, but at least for
now, they have to survive and hopefully doesn't get buy out by another maker.
Sorry for the digress, now back to the regularly
schedule Elantra vs Civic.
Dec 03, 2000 (5:29 am)
i never said honda was unreliable. Honda is a very reliable. I just dont apreciate you coming in here and bashing Hyundai. When you do that, dont expect not to be yelled at back.
But it really all has to to with how the owner cares for the car. You said those civics were abused. Yea, and look what happened. Shit broke on them. CV axels/boots, etc. You invested money into them and then they ran fine. Being reliable means not having to mass amounts of money into it. but you dumped 1500 into that civic. The same thing could go for an excel when something broke and dumping money like that into it. Then it would run fine. So that really doesnt count.
So get your facts straight. Hyundais are reliable now...just as reliable as Hondas. Forget the past. The past does not affect us. Its over and done with. The present and future is what counts now. Your posts are based on passed cars. talk about present models because hyundai is kicking major ass now. You just cannot accept it and are bullshitting with passed POS's. Yea, Honda has a built up reputation. Hyundai is working on that now. Give it 5-10 yrs time and people will be saying "when did hyundai ever suck?" because at the rate they are going, they will have the same repuation as honda has now. That is the only defense you have here acuragrl: reputation. Value, performance, quality, engine, warranty, etc. all of those hyundai has bagged. End of story
#457 of 1641 damnit acuragrl
Dec 04, 2000 (2:04 am)
recoup all your money. yea, $1,200 dollars is pretty close to 15k which is what was most likely paid for it. But again, this forum is not about old trash. YES, HYUNDAIS OLDER MODELS SUCKED, SO SHUT UP ABOUT COMPARING OLDER CARS. YOU WIN THAT ONE. IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE THAT. BUT THIS FORUM IS ABOUT THE 2000 OR 2001 MODELS. So forget passed experiences. Compare the 2001 or 2000 civic to the 2001 or 2000 elantra. The elantra has proven itself reliable over the passed few years. Lets do a side by side comparison and maybe i will get through to you.
Hyundai Elantra Honda civic
-14 hp more then high end Proven civic reliability
-Weighs 200 lbs more and still resale value
beats it in 0-60mph
Power everything STANDARD
-equipped better and still cheaper
-save about 4-5k with haggling
-10 yr warranty
this is a no brainer. Now, can you argue this without hyundais passed experience with the excel because the elantra had no major problems. WE KNOW HYUNDAI USED TO SUCK, BUT THEY'VE CHANGED OR WOULD HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS. dont argue resale because resale doesnt have an influence, because I plan on keeping the car till the end. So, with a great warranty to cover my ass till 100k vs the civic for 3 yrs. I end up saving even more money in case something goes wrong. So that on top up the thousands i save in the begining when buying it, its common sense to go with the elantra. In review, ask yourself this question: why would you pay more money for less of a car? Both cars are reliable now. Its been proven by Car and Driver, Daily record newspaper and a consumer digests best buy. If you dont plan on selling it...with that warranty, which is a wiser investment in the long run?
Dec 04, 2000 (2:10 pm)
who said, that I said, to ignore credible advice? Was it "freak in a CRX".....? That says all I need to say.... Edmunds doesn't require it's "posters" to meet any minimum literacy standards, so I guess ANYONE can post here after all.
What I said was - CR and Edmunds and the like are not credible - certainly are biased. Let's face it - they have ideas of what they like as well.
What one should do is drive the cars they are comparing, if one is better than the other driving/feeling/performing wise, then that is the one to buy. Ask friends, ask co-workers. REAL people that actually OWN the cars...not just sit in them for a thousand miles. That is CREDIBLE advice.
The problem with the Honda owners is this: They can't stand the fact that their cars, while nice cars, have been AT LEAST "equalled" in the marketplace. The Elantra performs just as well, if not better in some areas, has nicer warranty, and the price is just the deal sealer. And why wouldn't it be? Call me cheap, but I would not be driving a Honda or a Hyundai if I had money to burn. And - the Civic is just not enough car for the money that Honda wants for it.
The reason that Hyundai's "rep" in the marketplace is bad is because it is treated as a throwaway car. I even treat mine like that.....but I can still recognize the fact that a non-throw away car (Civic - who wants to throw away $17k?) has NOTHING on the Elantra. Not even the "reliability"....
All I can say is - we shall see. Honda might not be "going down", but Hyundai has stepped up and improved. Sales prove it. In this time of economic prosperity, everyone can buy Civics and pay the high price , but they CHOOSE not to....if Hyundai's were bad, they would have been gone a long time ago. The fact that people buy Elantra's, yet have the money to buy Civics and Corollas, says it all.
#459 of 1641 Response to acuragrl
Dec 04, 2000 (5:32 pm)
I'm so impressed. I've read your very extensive posts. If the Hyundai Elantra is not such a great car, why are you trying to defense your Acura (a/k/a Honda) so much?
We've heard you the first time.
EVERYONE: Lets give acuragrl a round of applause.
Now, let me tell you something, I do not need to exagerate or lie. I had the money to buy a Honda Civic EX '01 (i actually walked in there with cash in hand), but I walked out, not impressed with the car. I bought the Elantra fully loaded '01 and I so happy with it. It drives with so much power than the Civic, (even the Civic EX model). And to me HP is very important, especially for a car at around the same class (size, etc.). Did you check out the specifications for the Civic and compared them to the '01 Elantra? From your previous posts, I bet you didn't. Too stubborn to admit that the new Elantras are better then the Civics? Or too blind to see?
Also, my Elantra has the 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty and Powertrain warranty, I'm all set to go! And since you don't own a Hyundai, you really don't know that the warranty covers, well let me tell you, it covers everything! (except the maintenance, like an oil change and things like that). Also, I don't care about resale value, because I'm not planning to sell. We'll keep the Elantra to the end. I like to maintain my cars, I take good care of them, so I know my Elantra will take good care of me!
I agree with Justin00 that all cars have their faults. As long as you keep up with the maintenance schedules, and not abuse the car, the car should be fine.
The fact of the matter is that I've compared both cars, the Civic '01 and the Elantra '01, and for my reasons chose the Elantra. Plain and simple. Nothing more to it.
I just love the Hyundais so much, that who knows, in a couple of years, I'm even planning to stack on a couple of more cars, like the Sante Fe and the Sonata.
And for those Acura-Honda lovers of the world, be happy with your overpriced cars, but don't insult our "new generation" of Hyundais!
#460 of 1641 CVCC was a piece of crap!!
Dec 04, 2000 (5:48 pm)
I bought a 1977 Civic CVCC new in 77, and it was a piece of crap!! It did get 35 mpg WHEN THE ENGINE RAN, and used regular gas. But the engine ran terrible in cold weather. It generally hesitated and ran like a cement mixer. I had that piece of crap for one year before I traded it in. During that one year I had three recalls, head gasket, emission control, and new seat upolstery that was falling apart. I also had problems with squeeking brakes. The CVCC engine was just undrivable. So anyone who says CVCC hondas were great cars never owned one of them. Hondas have come a long way since them just as Hyundai has come a long way since the 80's.
Dec 04, 2000 (8:12 pm)
The only part that really gets me is when people are fooled into believing that Hyundai is as well built and reliable as Honda. That is just too halarious! Like Justine siad, they let anyone post in here, factless people are welcome. This is the board to come to if you don't have any facts or knowledge on cars. Just say anything based on your emotions and see if you can get enough "Hyundai-buddies" in here to support you.
Who needs credible sources like JD Powers, CR, or Edmunds? Who cares about resale value, or the security of knowing your car is going to be around for a long time?
Ask your friends? It seems evident that if you're not a bright person, neither are most of your friends. Talk about bias, your friends are bias. I think I'll stick to professional research, and a proven reputation. You guys can stick to believing the Hyundai dealer down the block.
If you want to ignore the reputations of the two car companies, fine. But you're only fooling yourself if you think that Honda and Hyundai are equal. If you can't rely on the past FACTS, then what are you suppose to rely on? High hopes it sounds like.
"Oh they would have went out of business...blah...blah...blah. HELLO! They are bankrupt and no one wants to invest money in them. That shows that you're right for once. They are desperately seeking capital because they HAVE been building crappy cars.
As for the sales figures mentioned a while ago, you just "happened" to overlook one very important fact and that is that Toyota and Honda established an excellent repuation for foreign car companies. I bet half of all Hyundai owners don't even know that it's not a Japanese car. Honda and Toyota plowed the way for Korea. Then Korea jumps in, selling their cars for about $5, and of course they are going to have good sales figures(thanks to T&H). Let's also take into account the growth of the population since the 70's that would account for a portion of the increase in sales figures.
To show you I'm not as biased as you try to make me out to be, i stopped off at the local Hyundai dealership the other day. The new designs that Hyundai is bringing to the market is impressive. The Elantra has never looked better and the Sonata is beautiful too. They come very well equipped, and the colors that customers can choose from are also very nice. The prices are low, (not so low around here) and the salesman was knowledgable and helpful. I don't mind admitting to any of that. But don't talk crap and say that Hyundai is equal to Honda. No one knows if Hyundai has improved reliability. All you new car owners can't tell me that your car is as good. It's brand new, come on already....
#462 of 1641 Thanx Acuragrl
Dec 04, 2000 (9:32 pm)
Thank you for at least keeping this forum interesting. I do not mind a contrary opinion.
But... It would help if you had actually drove a 1999 to 2001 Elantra, Sonata, or even better an XG300. That way you would be able to see that the quality of Hyundai vehicles have greatly improved. If getting inside a Hyundai (which has a pronounciation very similar to Honda)is beneath you, perhaps a glance at Edmunds and other automotive reviewers can be enlightening.
You stated:"A comparably equipped '01 Honda Civic LX is about $2,800 more than a '01 Elantra"
You proved my point. You are spending more for a car with an inferior warranty, less power, and still has less features- where are the side airbags? Oh, another extra. Once again, with the 2001 Elantra- you can not buy it without side airbags. And you pay $3000 dollars less.
#463 of 1641 Re: freakencrx
Dec 05, 2000 (2:54 am)
Hyundai going bankrupt? Thats Kia. Hyundai bought out Kia, dumbass. Kia was going bankrupt until Hyundai bought them. And how can they be going bankrupt when they introduced 2 new models this year, the XG300 and Santa Fe. You are right, someones facts need to be straight and its you.
You just cannot accept the fact that a "Korean" car is just about equal to honda. Well, accept it and maybe you wont be so damn ignroant. Listen to what Baber said. older hondas sucked. older hyundais suck. Hondas are good now. so are hyundais. this is all true. accept it. he has had no probelms with his accent nearing 40k miles. its all about the owner. what is your problem? from that last paragraph, i thought you sounded somewhat mature. but i was wrong. So take your 10 year old discontinued model Honda and get out!