Last post on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:54 PM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Sedan
Dec 02, 2000 (3:31 am)
alese: I am sure you checked out your facts thoroughly as all Hyundai owners do before their purchase (sarcasm intended) so I am sure that your statement that Honda's weren't top-sellers 10-12 years ago is a typo just like that whole thing about Hyundais being as good as Honda. I say this because the late 80's was when Honda came into it's own and produced what would become the top-selling 4-door sedan in the Accord. But of course you didn't know that because you were too busy talking out of the side of your keyboard. Get your facts straight, and by the way I know Honda doesn't compare with Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes. That's Acura. Geez...you Hyundai owners need to learn better research habits. Oh but I guess if you did that you would have a Honda.
And as the previous owner of 2 Civics I have a right to be here and can speak from experience. And after seeing the frustrated and furious faces of Hyundai owners who try to come in and trade their cars (for a Honda strangely enough)I think I have a little experience there too.
justin: Obviously alot of people think Hondas are special. The Accord and Civic have won more awards and accolades than Hyundai has sold cars.
And actually since you asked, I have a completely stock '01 EX V6 Accord Coupe to go along with my 92 Integra with the only modification being a plus 1 upgrade on the wheels. And it's that cool factory electric blue color. An Integra vs. an Elantra? Should I start laughing now or wait until the tranny falls out of your Hyundai trying to keep up? Hey but since I'm a good sport I'll give you a ride to the nearest Hyundai dealer and then to the nearest Daewoo dealer so you can upgrade.
bri70: When Hondas became serious about building cars in the 70's (the N600 was interesting)they were considered to be reliable fuel efficient cars. In fact the CVCC was the only car to qualify for emmissions without a catalytic converter. 30 years later they are still the maker of reliable fuel efficient cars which are immensely popular and still the standard bearers in engine technology whether for performance or for the environment. Prove me wrong.
Let's see what Hyundai did in it's first couple of years.......ouch....never mind. Hyundai has been on the market for 15 years now and they have still not been able to overcome their crappy reputation. Even if Hondas weren't considered world-class upon their introduction, less than 15 years later the Accord was among the best-selling, most reliable cars in the country with the Civic gaining more ground every year.
I did an interesting comparison. I took a 1985 Honda Accord w/ 250,000 miles and did a trade-in value on www.kbb.com. That car in base form with no options in good condition reported a value of $750. This was approx. 10 years after it's introduction and is now a 16 year old car.
I took a 1995 Hyundai Elantra with 150,000 miles and did a trade-in value on www.kbb.com. That car in base form with 150,000 miles in good condition reported a value of $260. This was approx. 10 years after Hyundai's introduction and is now a 6 year old car.
alese: As for you saying that the Honda dealer was slow and the Hyundai dealer was very busy, that statement has no credibility and you know it. A quick look at any sales chart will prove this.
Dec 02, 2000 (4:17 am)
I am glad you said people should ignore useful information.....that's some real good advice. Yeah, you don't have to listen to unbiased, researched information. You can shop merely by price tag. After all, that is Hyundai's only proven advantage over Honda. If your Hyundai is what you wanted, then you should be a happy man. That's great advice....."don't listen to professional testing, research and reviews.....just buy what's cheap."
I'll take that awful Integra off your hands, seeing as how its such a bad car you won't mind selling it to me at a good price, right? Forget book value buddy....who cares about value....sell that broken down Integra to me.
#447 of 1641 freakencrx and acruaGRL...
Dec 02, 2000 (5:25 am)
obviously, but your long and lengthy posts, you cannot accept the fact that hyundais are just as reliable as hondas now. Sure, the excel had problems. It was a lemon. C'mon. that was 10 yrs ago. If they still made cars like that, hyundai would have gone out of business a long time ago. but they listened and started building good cars. And resale is poor. Out of all those things you said, that is one where you are right on target. This is due to a poor reputation of the excel, obviously. But this is the past. I dont live in the past. I look to the present and the future. the past cannot be changed, but the future is what you make of the present. and the present and the future of hyundai is very positive and the resale is going up on hyundais.
So i dont want to hear "but the poor reputation of hyundai and the good reputation of honda" No way. Frankly, the elantra had one minor problem when it came out before it was fixed in 1995. timeing belt snapped if not changed around 60k miles. but if it was changed, engine ran fine. they had NO problems.
So inconclusion, the excel was a poor car. im not going to argue that. They dont make it now, do they? The elantra was a good car and is getting better. They had no major problems. cant argue that.
Whats most importantly is the owner and the care and maintance done to a car rather then the make and model. A properly maintained Yugo (i may be stretching it a bit, but you get the point)easily go over 100k miles if taken care of well. But i will guarentee you that a civic wont make it above 40 or 50k if abused and not maintained. it will die. but then again maintained well, it will run forever. its really the owner here, not the country the car is from. some people thinks ford sucks, chevy rules, etc. not the company folks, its how its maintained. ive seen both cars from each of those companies that go above and beyond
So my main point here is that both companies are reliable now. I have no problems yet with my elantra and i have close to 10k miles. One last saying to keep in mind that describes hyundai. "you may be a loser in high school, but cool in college" people change and get a chance to start over. that is what hyundai did and now they got a line of fantastic cars. and because it was cheap to buy, i plan on keeping it till the end. with a 10 yr warranty on it, my ass is covered and i can just by another car and use this as a daily beater because it was so cheap. so who cares about resale when your keeping it till the end?
Dec 02, 2000 (5:46 am)
My wife and I bought a 2001 elantra a month ago. So far, so good. I too was and am still a little skeptical about it's future. Why did we buy it? Well, they do seem to stand behind their cars, it is a great driving, powerful car, and my wife likes it, since she drives it. Like I said, we'll see. Our v-6 camry has also been great, so time will tell there too. My 94 geo metroid automatic work p.o.s. car with 125k miles surprisingly has been the most reliable car I've ever owned, and I drive the hell out of it. That car was designed as a throw away car, but I do perform regular maintenance, so I've avoided the pitfall of the "throw-away" stigma of that car. Hyundai was treated as a throw away car and therefore not taken car of, that's probably why many of them crapped out. Honda experience: I had a 96 ex 2 door with two problems. One, the outer cv boot clamp "fell" off at about 600 miles left in the warranty. Later an engine mount cracked (who'd figure) That was it. Other than that, it was a great car. But I like my toyota more--much quieter, quicker and bigger. It does feel a little weird being 26 and driving a car where the average age of the driver is 52 though. Friend: 98 civic lx 4 door. Dry throttle cable (not a big deal) Bad rotors--turned once, 2000 miles later shimmy like hell again. He's lived with the shimmy for 40k miles. He's going to get new ones, we think that the metal is contaminated. Car occasionally stalls at a light (idles down too low). Starts right up, but sometimes I felt that my civic also seemed to idle low, but it was normal. At 60k the pilot bearing began to get noisy in the trans. Honda "good-willed" it and fully dropped the trans and replaced all bearings in the 5 speed. (big deal). In other words, 2 hondas, one okay, one semi-problematic. He thinks he has a lemon. I don't know, maybe his car was finished on the assembly line on a monday or something. Point is I think that all cars, no matter what make, can have problems. I heard of a new bmw trans crapping out a few days after purchase, and a new S500 mercedes main ecu fry shortly after purchase. Sombitch if I'm paying 90k for a car and have a dead computer.
Oh yeah, my friend is an absolute maintenance freak (like me) and babies the hell out of the car. Seriously, he drives it like a damn granny and still has these problems. Yet people I know drive the crap out of theirs and go virtually trouble free.
Sorry to be winded (as many of my posts), but I think that all cars can have problems. Yes, Hyundai has had their problems, but I feel that most of their bugs have been worked out. Honda, toyota, lexus, do have proven records, and most people you talk to agree that they are the most reliable. But I feel that for 15k, Hyundai will be a good car (my opinion), even with their bosch engine controls. These bosch electrics can either be great, or a headache. We'll see. We won't abuse it, so I think it'll be fine. I visit most all forums here. ---No car is from their flaws, plain and simple. I won't bash any car manufacturer, I'm being honest--they all have their share of problems, some more than others. I hope that fellow 2k1 elantra owners have good luck as well.
#449 of 1641 Freakncrx
Dec 02, 2000 (12:13 pm)
I'll tell you exactly what this forum is about. It about car buyers who have test drove both the Civic and Elantra and decided that the Elantra was the better value. Some still go with the Civic but as you can see many minds are open to change and Hyundai has succeeded in changing them.
#450 of 1641 Research?! (AcuraGrl)
Dec 02, 2000 (12:37 pm)
"Geez...you Hyundai owners need to learn
better research habits. Oh but I guess if you did
that you would have a Honda."
Let me get this straight. Your idea of research is to compare the two cars and then pick the one that costs thousands more, with fewer features, an inferior warranty and less power.
HAHAHAHA HA. That is funny.
#451 of 1641 Research
Dec 02, 2000 (1:37 pm)
Hyundai broke sales records for every single month
in 2000. In late 2000, three new models were introduced.
They seem to be able to put out new models
quickly. Next year the Elantra will be available in a GT hatchback version. The Tiburon will get a new facelift and a V6 engine. The XG300 is also
reported to be getting more horsepower.
Pricing is also expected to continue to creep up.
Still, I read awhile ago that Hyundai has built one of the most advanced automated factories in Asia.
Coupled that with labor costs being less in Korea
they should still have an price advantage. There is even talk of opening a plant in the states.
The new Tiburon will have the third body styling
redesign in 5 years. That is pretty nimble if you
Anyway stronger competition helps the consumer
with all the automakers. Hopefully Honda will keep its prices in line and add more standard features.
Keep in mind that you CANNOT buy an Elantra WITHOUT power windows, door locks, mirrors, air-conditioning, and front/side airbags. CarsDirect lists the manual for under 12k. Then look at the equivalent 12K Honda Civic DX(CarsDirect). Look at the standard equipment available to you. I'm not making this up:
Front bucket seats
Oh, I've done the research. For me Hyundai is the better buy.
#452 of 1641 Resp to #469 (svenj)
Dec 02, 2000 (2:10 pm)
It was interesting to read your comment on your decision to go with the Civic juxtaposed to the Elantra. In my purchase of the Elantra '00, I similarly struggled in deciding which car to choose. Honda's laurels of reliability and precision craftsmanship is what continues to keep this car as a class leader in the compact market.
Contrary to clear logic, I went with the Elantra and really have no regrets to this point. This car handles remarkably well, and is well designed. I get the sense that at Hyundai, the company is directing its energy to dominating the auto compact market.
The deciding factor for me in choosing the Elantra, was of course Honda's prices. The Civic was considerably more expensive. For the price of my new 4-DR fully loaded Elantra '00, I was comparatively looking at a basic 2-Dr Civic '00 hatchback.
Given Hyundai's bedrock written five year "bumper to bumper" warranty, I feel that this is a good calculated risk.
I agree with you that the ultimate test will be how well this car "ages" in the next five years. If the Elantra ages as gracefully as the Civic, Honda will be facing very stiff competition in the future.
Right now, I'm pretty happy in knowing that if my decision should prove wrong, at least it would not have cost me anything because of Hyundai's impressive warranty. But so far, I am very impressed with this car's quality and performance.
Lots of luck and happiness in your new Civic... Bob MSEd.
#453 of 1641 The Hyundai Advantage
Dec 02, 2000 (6:11 pm)
aka their warranty plan is also another thing that draw me to this car. Certainly much better than Honda standard 3/36k.
Its funny that AcuraGRL mention about Acura being a competitor for Mercedes Benz or BMW. Someone that choose the Acura RL (flagship of the Acura line) against the BMW 5 series or the MB S series (or even Lexus LS430) can easily be put in the same position as people that choose Elantra over Civic in term of value. Except that the RL doesnt offers much against its competitor (it only has a v6 where everything else is V8) while Elantra offer much more than Civic in term of features.
Honda only enjoyed outstanding reputation here in the USA. Even in its homeland, Honda is an average performer. I guess its gotta be tough to have to go against a giant like Toyota, with minimal resources that Honda has.
Dec 03, 2000 (3:29 am)
elantra: I beg to differ on your comment that an abused Civic won't make it past 40-50k. We personally bought an abused 89 Honda Civic with 108k on it and drove it until 124k at which point I gave it to my sister who drove it for about another 20k and then traded it for a 1999 Civic. When we bought it it was not running because the timing belt had broken, the paint job was interesting to say the least, broken windshield, valve cover was in the hatch of the wagon, needed brakes, and 2 CV axles but we bought it for $550. With a total of $1500 it ran just like new and went to Florida, Ohio, anywhere we wanted to go including Canada with confidence. I wouldn't even buy a 98 Hyundai with that much wrong with it. But hey, a 1998 Hyundai wouldn't be worth the $1500 anyways. We also bought an abused 1990 Acura Integra with 132k for $2500. It had 3 different sized tires on it, the exhaust was falling off, the underside was brown due to all of the mud and dust (previous owner apparently lived off of a dirt road of some kind) and yet with about $800 total including timing belt and a CV axle we drove it to 166k and sold it for $3800. So just as you have your stories of abused Hondas I have my stories of abused Hondas. There would be stories of abused Hyundais brought back to life as were my Hondas but any abused Hyundai is sitting in the junkyard unable to tell it's story because they are worth so little the cost of repair is not justified.
bri70: No my idea of good research is knowing the facts and being able to back them up. A comparably equipped '01 Honda Civic LX is about $2,800 more than a '01 Elantra. According to www.kbb.com the Civic is worth $4800 more (98 w/ 30,000 example used) and according to Intellichoice is the among the least expensive cars to own over a 5 year period. Impressive considering how overpriced they seem to some people. So after 2 years you will have made back the extra $2,800 and made an extra $2,000.
The Tiburon keeps getting redesigned because of the hideousness of the thing. I'm sure more than one of Hyundai's designers saw a picture their 3 year old nephew drew and were like "hey that looks cool" then saw it actually going down the street and almost wrecked their cars because of the instantaneous vomitting and convulsions the Tiburon causes.
luifei: There are some major differences between comparing an RL to the Mercedes (the RL competes with the E-class by the way not the S-class), BMW 528, and the Lexus LS430 has left the RL's class in terms of engine AND price. It starts out at $58,000 vs the RL's price of $38,000. A Lexus GS300 is more comparable to the RL in terms of price, size, and engine and even it costs $9,000 more than the RL. The Mercedes E class starts out at $10,000 more for an E320.
But the biggest difference is that while the Hyundai falls flat on it face when comparing reliability and resale to the Civic the RL actually meets or exceeds all of it's competitors in resale and reliability. In the last JD Powers the RL was ranked THE most trouble-free car in initial quality.
And another fact that a little bit of research on your end would have produced is that Honda just overtook Nissan to become the #3 automaker in Japan. And Honda's limited resources have brought us cars like the S2000 (accolades), the Odyssey (accolades), the Insight (accolades), the CVT transmission (accolades), the MDX (accolades), the Type-S CL (accolades), the Accord (accolades including being named a 10 best car 15 out of 18 years by Car & Driver), the Type R (accolades). Geez...I'd hate to see what they would be capable of if their resources weren't "limited".