Last post on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:54 PM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Sedan
Mar 23, 2000 (7:59 pm)
bri70: How are you getting less car for the money? A Civic EX comes with CD player, Cruise, Power Sunroof, ABS brakes, Power windows, locks, Keyless, Tilt wheel, Folding rear seat, map lights, front and rear double wishbone, etc. Looks pretty comparable optionwise to me.
As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in 10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it has 13 more HP... but where's it at?
Vince8: I don't see how anyone can say the Civic is a "has-been". "Has-been" the best selling small car on the market maybe, "has-been" one of the highest rated small cars on the market in reliability and drivability maybe. Please tell me what make/model has surpassed the Civic in reliability/value/quality.
Special financing is not a sign that Civics are slipping, if that were the case all makes/models are slipping. I don't call 3.9% interest for 36 months giving the car away, do you?
andes: What facts have I distorted? I simply explained the Carpoint rating system and listed the costs that THEY said an owner would incur to fix it.
Why do you need to resort to name calling? Uneducated? Let me tell you one thing, calling names, insulting people, and being obnoxious will not help you get your point across. It makes YOU look like the one that is "uneducated". Strength of argument doesn't lie in who can call the most names or get the most insults in, strength of argument comes from knowing the facts, which you don't seem to know. It clearly shows that there were problems for more than 1 year with the Hyundai timing belt, not just the models produced before 1992.
You have shown ONE link that AT FIRST GLANCE would appear to show that the Hyundai is just reliable. But as I showed.. would you rather pay $200 for repairs on a $4,000 car or $2,000 in repairs on a $600 car? Answer seems pretty obvious even to my uneducated brain. I could show link upon link upon link showing how reliable the Civic is. Read Consumer Reports, look at IntelliChoice. What makes the Carpoint link any more believable than CR or Intellichoice?
#44 of 1641 Isell_mistus1
Mar 23, 2000 (8:33 pm)
comparable optionwise to me."
You are paying 3 thousand dollars more for those comparable options. There is nothing in the Civic that the Elantra lacks.
"As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic
EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in
10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it
has 13 more HP... but where's it at?"
The Elantra's low-end torque is poor (though my car does better than 10.5), but at highway speeds; forget the Civic EX, the Elantra will have little problems passing a Civic EX.
Mar 23, 2000 (8:39 pm)
That's not true. The Civic makes most of it's power at high revs. So the higher the revs the better the Civic's advantage.
Also, I remember racing a kid in a lime green Elantra with a purple stripe and a Folger's can exhaust. I was in a 1998 Civic EX sedan w/ manual transmission. It was closer from the start and I started pulling away with every shift. But that's subjective so I will stick with what Edmunds has to say.
Yes you are paying $3,000 more for the Civic but isn't a Hyundai more than a Kia? Does that mean you should buy the Kia? A car's value and dependibility are not just measure by initial cost. You have to take other factors into consideration.
#46 of 1641 Empirical data...
Mar 23, 2000 (9:05 pm)
Sorry, but I have no desire (or ability) to post links, service bulletins etc, just for a stupid argument.
Instead, I talk to the techs in our shop. Yes, they tell me, some early 90's Hondas had distributors that wore out prematurely. Big deal!
Was it 10%, 20% 25% ?? I don't know and neither do they. They tell me it wasn't that big of a number. Most never failed.
A bad distributor is NOT a bad engine! They will cause the engine to misfire, and I guess if a person were able to ignore these symptoms for a long time, the car could probably stop running.
Vince...You think the Civic is a "has been" ?
Think again, and wait a few months when the totally new Civic hits the market!
I guess that would make a Hyundai a "never was" ?
Isell mitsu...I think you for bring sanity to this forum. You have more patience than I do, and you do a good job of setting the record straight!
Mar 23, 2000 (11:40 pm)
isell mitsu.... do the resale cars and the carsdirect price have the same options??
Mar 23, 2000 (11:45 pm)
plus..... you sell cars... you should know those numbers aren't all that correct. The trade in value/resale value is determined by what the market can bear..... it can work in your favor or not....
Mar 24, 2000 (2:32 am)
Thanks for the encouragement Isellhondas. I enjoy your posts as well and you seem to do a pretty good job of straightening facts out as well.
bill1170: Yes they do. I optioned them out with the same equipment using carsdirect.com and listed all options accordingly on kbb.com.
You are right, the numbers aren't perfect. But it will give you a good idea of the market for the car. It does depend on what the market will bare but I can't think of any market where the Hyundai would do as well as the Civic.
I know our company shies heavily away from the Hyundais and Kias because of warranty issues, desirability, and overall reliability. Actually one of our finance companys refuses to finance Hyundais due to the overwhelming % of repossessions that occur with that make for one reason or another. I have been working for my company for almost 2 years now and have yet to see a Hyundai for sale on our lot. I have seen a few on some of our other lots but I think I could count them on one hand.
If you do not care about resale value (or what your friends think about you) maybe the Hyundai is a good bet for you. But for me, I like a known entity and there is just a subliminal stigma in my brain attached to Hyundais. I don't care how long their warranty is, anytime I see a new Hyundai I can't help but think about the used one I just saw with a cloud of blue smoke spewing out of the tailpipe, or the one I saw before that deserted on the side of the road.
#50 of 1641 any car even mercedez-benz...
Mar 24, 2000 (9:14 am)
will conk out prematurely if not taken care of. in the past, many owners of hyundais didn't take care of the cars and that was a major reason that those cars were lackluster.
BUT THE CARS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THAT SMALL LITTLE COUNTRY CALLED KOREA IN ASIA THESE DAYS ARE PUTTING OUT SOME WORLD CLASS CARS! I JUST CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM TO GO UPMARKET.
i think that the koreans can put some pressure on the japanese.
oftentimes i find the japanese cars to be over-priced or under-equipped or both.
korea is an economic powerhouse and the products that are coming out of that country are starting to reflect that.
give 'em some credit.
the beneficiaries will be us americans.
#51 of 1641 "Is that a new Honda?"
Mar 24, 2000 (3:12 pm)
Do I care what people think of what I'm driving?Trust me Isell_mitsus1, I know, I get some flak. It just shows how profoundly ignorant many people are. It is one thing to say "I do not want to drive a Hyundai because..." Quite another to say "Hyundai's are crap," without ever sitting inside a recent model. More than a few times someone has asked me if what I'm driving was the new Toyota or Honda model. Invariably the questions are preceded with a comment on the vehicle looking attractive.
But this will change. A few years ago, few people would have considered a forum topic of "Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra." Not only are people beginning to ask this question, but as you can see many people actually would pick the Hyundai.
Around eight thousand Elantra's are being sold a month. A 100% sales increase over last year. Who is buying these vehicles? Sure some may be more of a credit risk. My neighbor with a Sonata lives in a 275 thousand dollar house. Another neighbor a few blocks away has two Elantra's in his driveway. I can easily afford an Accord, Camry or even a BMW 3 series. I don't drive everyday so I fail to see the need for a more expensive vehicle.
Isell_mitsus1, I'm willing to bet that within 5 years not only will you be seeing more Hyundai's during your travel's (including an SUV and a near luxury model this year) but few people will be looking at them with derision. Your name may just be isell_korean.
Mar 24, 2000 (3:42 pm)
I have never said that the new Hyundais models were crap, I said that the old Hyundai models were crap and the new ones still aren't as good as Honda.
Sure they may sell 100,000 Elantras this year but the Civic still sells 3 times that not to mention all of the used Civics that are sold in a year, and with a new model on the way it's sales will increase even more.
As I said, I may view Hyundai differently in a few years but right now I think the Accord/Civic are 2 of the best, most reliable sedans in their respective categories. Maybe the next generation of car buyers will not attach the same stigma to the Hyundai name and Hyundai will be regarded as more reliable than Honda, who knows? But by the time that happens my walker will be a little hard to navigate around the lot so I doubt I'll be selling them.