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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Sedan

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#41 of 1637 to Mitsu salesperson by andes11 Mar 23, 2000 (12:16 pm)
I see you're trying hard to distort the facts. Where does the report say the Elantra timing belts fail prematurely? It says it's a periodic problem. The reason the belt failures are described as periodic failure is that the indy shop techs who don't know how to tension the belt properly keep changing them until they decide to ask for help. Here's one example of a smart tech who asked fellow techs about the correct timing-belt installation procedure in advance on the iATN mailing list. ================================================== 1993 Hyundai Elantra 1.6 L   Trans: Automatic   Mileage: 130,000 mi   VIN: KMHJF22R6RU55003X   Misc Data: engine family 1.6GJVGAEA   Affected Item: Timing belts   ___________________________FIX:___________________ I learned,from Paul Baldassarre, administrator, tech.assistance line,of Hyundai Motor America, and several others, that some early production (before 6/8/92)1.6's came without ballance shafts.After that they have them & the proceedure is the same as the 1.8's. I mention the 1.8 because Mitchell,Autodata,& possibly others don't give info. on the ballance shafts of any year 1.6! Because the rear shaft is driven by the oil pump sprocket,and not at a 1 to 1 ratio,it is not enough to simply line up the index mark.Remove the 14mm hex bolt found on block, behind tail end of compressor(or starter), and ensure that a #2 phillips screwdriver will insert aprox. 60mm while indexed.Be aware that two special tools are specified for tensioning the main t-belt.All of this is in Mitchell & Autodata but you need to look at text for 1.8! I also believe that their labor times are incorrect for the 1.6.The ballance shafts makes it worth a few extra tenths,and more if you change the (2 extra)seals!Thanks to everyone who responded! There are some sharp Hyundai guys out there!   ____________________ORIGINAL MESSAGE:__________ Dear fellow members, Am doing t-belts on engine that has complaint of vibration & has had belts replaced before. I remember doing a similar Mitsubishi engine in the past & learned about the indexing hole/pin arrangement to ensure proper timing of rear ballance shaft. My concern this time is that Mitchell only refers to doing this on the 1.8 engine,not the 1.6! I am hoping that information is correct( because the A.C. compressor is mounted low on the back of the block ,where I would guess the inspection hole would be). Don't want to find out the hard way that this information is wrong! Can anyone confirm the proceedure on the 1.6? I have checked the archives,but only found reference to other engines. Thanks greatly,in advance,   Sincerely, xxx xxxxxxxxx   xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx   xxxxxxhotmail.com   Technician   Colonial Foreign Car Service, Inc.   Williamsburg, Virginia, USA   iATN Sponsoring Member ================================================== About the ECU and ISC motor in early 90s Elantras ,do you know they were made by Mitsubishi Electric? Ask an experienced factory-trained tech in your dealership how common the failures of these two parts are in old Mitsubishis.   92-93 Civics got 4 out of 5 in the reliability rating and you can't change the number by saying the problems are insignificant. You say distributor, main relay and oxygen sensor failures are insignificant, but it's your personal, uneducated opinion that nobody cares to listen and doesn't hold water when the ratings are based on statistical analyses of the largest repair database in the nation. And lastly, why are you quoting car prices? I'm not buying a car from you.
#42 of 1637 . by scape2 Mar 23, 2000 (5:03 pm)
Special financing on Honda's in my region. Is this a sign that Honda sales are slipping? The Civic is a good car, that fact is other car manufactures have caught up and surpassed Honda in quality/reliability/value. It was bound to happen, its called economic evolution. The Civic is a has been.
#43 of 1637 . by isell_mitsus1 Mar 23, 2000 (7:59 pm)
bri70: How are you getting less car for the money? A Civic EX comes with CD player, Cruise, Power Sunroof, ABS brakes, Power windows, locks, Keyless, Tilt wheel, Folding rear seat, map lights, front and rear double wishbone, etc. Looks pretty comparable optionwise to me. As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in 10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it has 13 more HP... but where's it at? Vince8: I don't see how anyone can say the Civic is a "has-been". "Has-been" the best selling small car on the market maybe, "has-been" one of the highest rated small cars on the market in reliability and drivability maybe. Please tell me what make/model has surpassed the Civic in reliability/value/quality. Special financing is not a sign that Civics are slipping, if that were the case all makes/models are slipping. I don't call 3.9% interest for 36 months giving the car away, do you? andes: What facts have I distorted? I simply explained the Carpoint rating system and listed the costs that THEY said an owner would incur to fix it. Why do you need to resort to name calling? Uneducated? Let me tell you one thing, calling names, insulting people, and being obnoxious will not help you get your point across. It makes YOU look like the one that is "uneducated". Strength of argument doesn't lie in who can call the most names or get the most insults in, strength of argument comes from knowing the facts, which you don't seem to know. It clearly shows that there were problems for more than 1 year with the Hyundai timing belt, not just the models produced before 1992. You have shown ONE link that AT FIRST GLANCE would appear to show that the Hyundai is just reliable. But as I showed.. would you rather pay $200 for repairs on a $4,000 car or $2,000 in repairs on a $600 car? Answer seems pretty obvious even to my uneducated brain. I could show link upon link upon link showing how reliable the Civic is. Read Consumer Reports, look at IntelliChoice. What makes the Carpoint link any more believable than CR or Intellichoice?
#44 of 1637 Isell_mistus1 by bri70 Mar 23, 2000 (8:33 pm)
"Looks pretty comparable optionwise to me." You are paying 3 thousand dollars more for those comparable options. There is nothing in the Civic that the Elantra lacks. "As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in 10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it has 13 more HP... but where's it at?" The Elantra's low-end torque is poor (though my car does better than 10.5), but at highway speeds; forget the Civic EX, the Elantra will have little problems passing a Civic EX.
#45 of 1637 bri70 by isell_mitsus1 Mar 23, 2000 (8:39 pm)
That's not true. The Civic makes most of it's power at high revs. So the higher the revs the better the Civic's advantage. Also, I remember racing a kid in a lime green Elantra with a purple stripe and a Folger's can exhaust. I was in a 1998 Civic EX sedan w/ manual transmission. It was closer from the start and I started pulling away with every shift. But that's subjective so I will stick with what Edmunds has to say. Yes you are paying $3,000 more for the Civic but isn't a Hyundai more than a Kia? Does that mean you should buy the Kia? A car's value and dependibility are not just measure by initial cost. You have to take other factors into consideration.
#46 of 1637 Empirical data... by isellhondas Mar 23, 2000 (9:05 pm)
Sorry, but I have no desire (or ability) to post links, service bulletins etc, just for a stupid argument. Instead, I talk to the techs in our shop. Yes, they tell me, some early 90's Hondas had distributors that wore out prematurely. Big deal! Was it 10%, 20% 25% ?? I don't know and neither do they. They tell me it wasn't that big of a number. Most never failed. A bad distributor is NOT a bad engine! They will cause the engine to misfire, and I guess if a person were able to ignore these symptoms for a long time, the car could probably stop running. Vince...You think the Civic is a "has been" ? Think again, and wait a few months when the totally new Civic hits the market! I guess that would make a Hyundai a "never was" ? Isell mitsu...I think you for bring sanity to this forum. You have more patience than I do, and you do a good job of setting the record straight!
#47 of 1637 . by bill11770 Mar 23, 2000 (11:40 pm)
isell mitsu.... do the resale cars and the carsdirect price have the same options??
#48 of 1637 . by bill11770 Mar 23, 2000 (11:45 pm)
plus..... you sell cars... you should know those numbers aren't all that correct. The trade in value/resale value is determined by what the market can bear..... it can work in your favor or not....
#49 of 1637 . by isell_mitsus1 Mar 24, 2000 (2:32 am)
Thanks for the encouragement Isellhondas. I enjoy your posts as well and you seem to do a pretty good job of straightening facts out as well. bill1170: Yes they do. I optioned them out with the same equipment using carsdirect.com and listed all options accordingly on kbb.com. You are right, the numbers aren't perfect. But it will give you a good idea of the market for the car. It does depend on what the market will bare but I can't think of any market where the Hyundai would do as well as the Civic. I know our company shies heavily away from the Hyundais and Kias because of warranty issues, desirability, and overall reliability. Actually one of our finance companys refuses to finance Hyundais due to the overwhelming % of repossessions that occur with that make for one reason or another. I have been working for my company for almost 2 years now and have yet to see a Hyundai for sale on our lot. I have seen a few on some of our other lots but I think I could count them on one hand. If you do not care about resale value (or what your friends think about you) maybe the Hyundai is a good bet for you. But for me, I like a known entity and there is just a subliminal stigma in my brain attached to Hyundais. I don't care how long their warranty is, anytime I see a new Hyundai I can't help but think about the used one I just saw with a cloud of blue smoke spewing out of the tailpipe, or the one I saw before that deserted on the side of the road.
#50 of 1637 any car even mercedez-benz... by genes555 Mar 24, 2000 (9:14 am)
will conk out prematurely if not taken care of. in the past, many owners of hyundais didn't take care of the cars and that was a major reason that those cars were lackluster. BUT THE CARS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THAT SMALL LITTLE COUNTRY CALLED KOREA IN ASIA THESE DAYS ARE PUTTING OUT SOME WORLD CLASS CARS! I JUST CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM TO GO UPMARKET. i think that the koreans can put some pressure on the japanese. oftentimes i find the japanese cars to be over-priced or under-equipped or both. korea is an economic powerhouse and the products that are coming out of that country are starting to reflect that. give 'em some credit. the beneficiaries will be us americans.

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