Last post on Feb 17, 2010 at 2:54 PM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Sedan
#1403 of 1641 Re: Yep [nvbanker]
Nov 08, 2006 (2:10 pm)
Have you owned Elantras for over 6 years, as I have? Then maybe you can give first-hand testamony to the "feel of the drive", the quality, and the long-term performance of Hyundais vs. Hondas (which I have owned also).
Back in 2000 I could have purchased the all-new 2001 Civic instead of the all-new 2001 Elantra. In fact the Civic was my top choice "on paper". Just based on the cars themselves, I'm really glad I didn't. The fact I saved over $6000 in buying the Hyundai was icing on the cake.
#1404 of 1641 Re: Yep [backy]
Nov 08, 2006 (4:39 pm)
Backy, as you know from my other posts, I too have previously owned Hondas and Toyotas. Resale value "still" is a problem with Hyundais, but I think this may be slowing changing. The point is, I seriously considered a new Civic when I bought my 2006 Elantra last December. But, the price differential for comparably equipped models - actual delivered price including TTL - was $6,500 in the Elantra's favor.
There's no doubt the Elantra will depreciate faster than the Civic - but, I already have a positive $6,500 cash flow differential. Sometimes, I don't think this initial differential is taken into account. And, not a single quality or warranty-related problem with the Elantra after 11 months. By that time with my last Civic, I already had 3 warranty repairs.
Since I keep my cars at least 10 years, sometimes 20, residual value and/or depreciation rate is somewhat a moot argument anyway.
#1405 of 1641 Re: Yep [nvbanker]
Nov 08, 2006 (4:42 pm)
moparbad, THANK YOU!!!
Nov 08, 2006 (4:50 pm)
This is a bit off topic...but I figured a little real life survey I did, though not mathematical, but a random sampling could give a real life clue into the buying preferences of middle class Americam workers. Here goes...and I apologize if the hosts deem this post wayyyy off topic.
I work as a letter carrier, though recently injured, at a small annex with about 80 employees. We're all middle class workers with hourly wages. I did a quick survey recently and found about a 60/40 split of foreign brands versus American automobiles. Chevy & Dodge/Chtysler amount for over 50% of the American brands. But Honda/Toyota account for just over 75% of the foreign brands with 5 new '06 Civics on the lot. The rest of the foreign brands have some Nissans & 2 Hyundai/Kia models.
Not a very scientific sampling here & I know that I'll get ripped to shreads here, but I have to say that I was not surprised at all by my finding. It just proved to me that "in this sampling" of middle class working folk, the benefits of a longer warranty and lower price of the "Korean brands" still haven't changed their market share all that much & they still have a ways to go against the other major foreign players.
Like I said, this is just an unscientific random sample of my office and the kind of cars my co-workers choose to own. The one major conclusion that I came away with is that the reputation & perceived superior quality still influences people's buying decision, especially automobiles. Just thought I'd share this little experiment I did!
#1407 of 1641 Re: A Bit Off Topic [sandman46]
Nov 08, 2006 (5:05 pm)
Statistically small sample, but still valid . . . I agree that reputation and perception is practically everything. It took the Japanese cars a decade or two to convince most consumers, and it will take the Koreans at least that long, perhaps longer. This is one of the primary reasons why many continued to buy Detroit iron in the '70s! But, those who bought Japanese cars ahead of the curve and against conventional thinking were the winners. Some could argue the same is true for those who are now buying Korean cars.
#1408 of 1641 Different Result
Nov 08, 2006 (5:46 pm)
I just wonder if similar results would be seen with a more affluent sampling which has greater disposable income to spend on transportation. Would be interesting to see these results.
On a side note, I did have the opportunity to sit in a new Azerra and was totally blown away by what I felt & saw. Excellent ergonomics, great fluidity in the controls and the feeling that everything fell to hand...everything felt to be in the right place with that tactile (?) feel that the foreign brands naturally have. Didn't get any road time, but was duly impressed. And the bang for the buck variable is definitely there. I also really enjoyed my Sonata rental almost as much, but I've stated that numerous times in these forums. The mpg's on these models just need to get closer to the Honda/Toyota duo & watch out world.
Also, I did happen to see a couple of new Elantra's this week on the road and was very intriqued with the car from the C pillar back. Looks like a more upscale & larger car than I would have imagined. The photos on the Hyundai website do an injustice to this car. It's much nicer in person and if it indeed drives and has the quality that it needs in this highly contested market, Hyundai just might of hit a bullseye. Just like the rest of the lineup, Hyundai needs to get the mpg numbers up about 10%, and I have no doubt that this will happen within a few year.
I really do wish Hyundai luck in this endevor. They've finally come into the 21st century as an automaker, and dare I say it...I might even consider a Hyundai within the next 5 to 7 years!
#1409 of 1641 Re: Different Result [sandman46]
Nov 08, 2006 (7:08 pm)
I know of at least two families who drive a Hyundai, and one that drives a Kia (Sedona), and all of these families have incomes in excess of $150,000. For these families, they always pay cash for the cars and choose to invest their money in real estate and bonds, and not automobiles. I know they're certainly in the minority, and really skew the statistics as to who typically purchases a Hyundai or Kia, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless. Conversely, I wonder how many folks who drive a BMW, M-B, etc., are heavily levered, and deeply into debt??
I agree on the new Elantra. The pics on the website do not do it justice. I drove a 2007 yesterday, and the interior is a big step up from the previous generation. MPG's do need to improve to be competitive with Honda and Toyota however.
#1410 of 1641 Re: Different Result [w9cw]
Nov 08, 2006 (7:21 pm)
Actually, the Elantra gets better fuel economy than the Honda of comparable (interior) size--the Accord. Remember, the Elantra is mid-sized, not a compact like the Civic or Corolla. I think it is the top-rated (EPA) non-hybrid mid-sized car for fuel economy.
#1411 of 1641 This is gonna be a long post,
Nov 08, 2006 (8:25 pm)
I have owned Hyundai's since Aug of 1999.
Here's what we owned:
1999 Sonata GLS-V6(at the time, the top of the line model) Had it from Aug 99-Sept 04. 118,000+ miles.
2001 Tiburon, base model(June 01-Sept 04) 103,000+ miles.
2004 GLS V6 Sonata( still have it) Sept 04- current.
Problems: 99 Sonata:
Needed new alternator 88,000
Needed new turn signal stalk(yes, you read correctly)at 93,000
Needed new raditator at 103,000.
Needed new water pump at 115,000.
Went in 3 times for "computer chip-module" for the "fuzzy logic" shifting.
Evap- flap(forgot what it's call, recircualtion valve , by gas tank, to collect gas fumes, and put 'em back into the tank?).... at 85,000.
Nice car, BUT IRRITATING.
New fron axles and bearings at 99,303
103,000+ auto tranny needed replaced, so we dumped the car for the Sonata(Unfortunately).
Both back window gaskets and motors(power windows) needed replaced. One in July, One in Sept of this year, between 32-34,000 miles. Got harrassed about fixing it, so I threatened to call the District Factory Rep for ameeting at the dealership, they suddenly became co-operative again.
Another gripe? We have cloth, and it is already wearing prematurely
The armrest, center console? and where you open and close the door, from the inside, is wearing, badly.
We will never buy another Hyundai again in my household.
As for Honda: well, my father in law(2 years ago) went to buy an Element, but they refused to knock off 1 red cent(were actually Arrogant when he spoke to them in person).
December of 2004, they sent him an e-mail, saying" 1,399 off all Elements!"
he relied" you are 3 months too late". he would have been glad with 1K off msrp in Sept.
He now has a new SX4, Suzuki(*his 3rd Suzuki, really, if you inclulde th e90 tracker with 217,000 , and the 97 with 97,000, NO PROBLEMS, except the Trackers are like farm implements, the SX4? Excellent!).
All cars I have owned had some issues:
77 camaro: rusted like crazy, stalled alot thansk to the carb on it.
87 "chevy" Spectrum: needed brakjes every 18,000 miles(pads), new master Cylinder 14,000 miles( back then, a warranty was 12,000, or 1 year), just a pain.
90 sentra xe: stalled out at 7000 due to timing not set properly at factory or dealership. New stereo at 9000 miles, and re-glued door protection strip back on at 9,700 miles.
Pitted badly once we moved back up North(was in military )due to road cinders on snowy roads... like sand blasting the door panels.
97 200sx: 66K.... died due to timing chain jumped one notch, and needed starter rebuilt, ignition coil, new timing gear, etc... big pain.
The rest is above, in the Hyundai comments, except for our 2004 Scion tC automatic. Great Little car, except it needed the wiper blade arm, passenger side, fixed, 2 times, in 6 weeks, in 2005. Also, 1 recall for sunroof .
nearly 70,000 in 26 months.
I just don't get into dealerships that act like you should pay them for being opened and selling you a car, lol.
Toyota and Honda are good, btu i knwo Many people working 2 jobs now, or PT, etc, and can not afford more than maybe 10-12K, and they buy Accent or Elantra's on sale, due ot warranty(most people I know only drive maybe 10,000 miles a year, too).
Or they buy a (on sale) Cobalt, or new Aveo.
it has 5/100K on these.
If people had the cash to throw around, yeah, they might buy a Accord or Top Of The Line(nearly 20K) Civic.
relative who got the SX4 paid less than 15,000.
AWD or FWD, flip of a switch.
Most people who I know own Honda get them used, because they can't afford new, and loaded up like they want.
Fit? They don't want one. they want a "normal" sized car, in case, well, one of these 8 tons SUV's hit them.
take care/not offense.
#1412 of 1641 Re: This is gonna be a long post, [harrychezt]
Nov 09, 2006 (5:41 am)
Let me start by stating I have a history here for being too ah, controversial. With that in mind I'll say that most, if not all the problems you encountered on the Hyundai products were more or less normal with regard to the miles at which they occurred. On your first Sonata: An alternator nearly 90K miles isn't too unusual. A water pump at over 110K miles? once again not too unusual. You don't state what happened to the radiator. Did a rock puncture it? Most modern cars have an aluminum core and plastic tank construction radiator which I have found to be less that ideal in my experience with Ford products (various Taurus and Sable cars) so I won't comment on the disposition of this one. The turn signal stalk usually controls various functions these days so one of those switches on this multi-function control could have crapped out..somewhat unusual but not unheard of. Fuzzy logic chip failure? I happen to work in electronics so I am aware how flakey they (microcircuits) can be..they will either work forever or die now, and again tomorrow and the day after that but electronics are generally reliable and this may have been a mishandling of the component by the service tech because microcircuits are prone to be damaged by static (ESD or electrostatic discharge).
On the tiburon: wheel bearings/alxe shafts 100K miles? This is a bit premature but the rubber bellows that cover the actual joints (CVJ and DOJ)could have been ripped and not detected/replaced in a timely fashion allowing contaminents to destroy those items early..of course I don't know your maintainence habits I am just speculating here. The transmission?? again after having owned a few Taurus/Sable's I am not unfamiliar with transmission problems, some much earlier than 103K miles so while I won't comment on the fact it died relatively early it isn't unheard of either.
On the 04 Sonata: having to replace window lift motors at any time is fairly common, they usually have plastic gears and they strip out, additionally you state that window gaskets were replaced at the same time. Could it be the gaskets jammed the windows in some fashion and caused the motors to burn out early?? Fabric seat material wear..that is another item subject to lots of abuse and cannot be said to last X amount of years with certainty. Sure it should be fairly durable but who can predict. All in all the Hyundai products didn't, in my opinion, show any really unusual behavior as far as failures with the possible exception of the transmission and without knowing your maintainence habits that too could have been something avoidable.
Just a short personal experience..my son is driving a 2000 Elantra with 149,000 miles (We are the 2nd owner)and aside from some problems with front rotors(Hyundai replacements seemed to warp early) routine brake pad and tire replacement and 1 alternator 145,000 miles it has been trouble free. So for every person who says as you do "We will never buy another Hyundai again in my household" I can counter with how great our experiences have been. By the way,why are you so negative about Hyundai? Most of these failures are normal for any brand auto and not at unusually low mileages.