Last post on Sep 20, 2011 at 3:33 PM
You are in the Audi A4
What is this discussion about?
Audi A4, Sedan
#4677 of 6042 re: platforms/chassis designations and immobilizers
Dec 05, 2002 (1:42 am)
bodydouble-- Yes, the B5 platform (or the chassis code for the Audi A4/S4 model being 8D) is for MY 1996-2001. The B6 platform, sometimes referred to as 8E (8E being the chassis code for the Audi A4) is the designation for MY 2002 and 2003.
VAG has long used alpha-numeric platform designations associated with the market segment (A=entry/small, B=mid/medium, C=mid/large and D=luxury/large) and generation (1=1st, 2=2nd, etc.). The '96-'01 (in U.S.) A4 is Audi's 5th generation B-segment model (as defined by European segments listed). The 2002/2003 A4 is the 6th generation B-car, therefore B6 platform. Ironically the platform designation for the TT, Jetta and Golf is "A4" --4th generation A-segment (small car).
The chassis code specifies the specific model since a number of vehicles can be produced from the same platform. Therefore the '96-'01 A4 is based on the B5 platform with the chassis designation of 8D and the '02 and '03 built on the B6 platform using the chassis designation of 8E. The Passat, for example, uses the same B5 platform as the 1st generation A4 but will have a different chassis code or designation.
Now for immobilizers, Billy set me straight a few months ago when I mistakenly said that earlier models of the A4 had full immobilizers and then for some strange reason, they did away with them in the 2000 and 2001 MYs. According to Billy, no B5 A4s had "true" engine immobilizers (chipped key with transponder). To my understanding, the current A4 (B6 platform) does have full immobilization complete with chipped keys and transponders. I've asked this before with no response; but can an owner of a B6 confirm this?
#4678 of 6042 Getting a new Audi
Dec 05, 2002 (4:39 pm)
I will be picking up my new 03 Audi 1.8QM with prem and xenon tomorrow. I would have like to get the Bose, but the deal I got was so good that other dealers did not even want to touch the price.
I was going to get the 1.8 CVT, but changed my mind after test driving it in the rain. My old car is a Honda, and I could not believe how glued to the road the Quattro made the driver feel. I pushed the car during one manuver where I was making a U turn under an overpass and I was really whipping around the corner. Now I did the same with the CVT, and it handled the wet road well, but you really feel the difference in overall stability with the Quattro. I finally went the Quattro because of that experience. And I chose the MT because this car motivates me to be more involved with the driving. Which means I can no longer eat, talk on the phone, and write directions down at the same time while I'm making a turn:)
Overall I'm excited to join the ranks of Audi owners. I owned a '84 BMW 318i in college, and had a taste of German engineering and performance. I really missed it. My Honda was a very realible and fun car to drive, but I'm moving on. Thank you all for all the info that I've gathered on this site over the past months of researching. I'll share my experience with you all later. Thanks. You all are a great bunch of Audi enthusiasts.
Dec 05, 2002 (6:23 pm)
Would you mind posting how much you got the audi for, and from what dealersh ip? I'm interested in one as well, but am unsure about the prices that are being quoted in my area. If you feel uncomfortable posting on this message board, feel free to email me at shehzadmshotmail.com. Thanks-Shehzad
Dec 06, 2002 (3:37 am)
Generally, good deals can be had almost anywhere if one do the research and know how to negotiate. A previous post (msg #4404) claimed $50 BELOW invoice on a '03 1.8T CVT from Royale Audi in Bloomington Indiana. A call to a sales manager there revealed that although they generally like to make 3-4% of invoice, regional preference for Quattro made demands for CVT's more elastic in the mid-west, thus much more price-negotiable. Another call to a dealer in Wisconsin confirmed this, evidenced by a lone CVT in a lotfull of Quattros. According to the same source, in the mid-west (edmunds notwithstanding) resale value of Quattro's is $2000 more than its FWD brethren. Think outside of the box. Can you para-dig-em?
Anyway, I'm in the south, and I opted for the Quattro, and after extensive negotiation, got a car that was about $600 over invoice for everything, period. One thing a buyer must do, and that is negotiate for drive out prices, so there are no surprises and the salesman can explain any legitimate fees to you. It is the end of the year, and the dealerships are looking to rack up sales.
Do you all realize how competitve this entry lux segment is? Infiniti G35 appears to be the rage validated by Motortrend, not to mention the benchmark BMW bogey from Bavaria. This is a buyer's market made possible by the convergence of fashionable SUV's, economic downturn, and (I mean) intense competition. Among the auto industry, this is a zero sum game.
On a final note, I have read posts from those who look askance at buyers who try to negotiate for the lowest possible price, as they feel that the low-ballers somehow miss the point of lux car ownership. But the relationship between a buyer and a dealer is generally a win-win situation, especially in the context of the intense competition among automakers. Not to be redundant, this zero sum game exists among automakers because a sale implies lost of revenue at other companies. Hence, the dealer, the particular company, ultimately wins when you make a purchase. Glib critics of getting the best price are probably 1) the idle rich (no one who really earns their money would part with it so easily) 2) people who overpaid and try to justify it and 3) the dealers themselves. I tend to go with the last group.
So, I think good deals can be made on individual basis. I seriously doubt my particular dealer will want to give a deal like that away again in the near future. I was actually made aware of that.
#4681 of 6042 I would like to be the idle rich, where do I apply?
Dec 06, 2002 (8:52 am)
The written word makes this sometimes unclear, which is probably an indication that I don't have a large enough vocabulary.
Getting a good price (who knows what best means) is certainly the right thing to do. Beating up a dealer is not. Although I am not the idle rich, I would like to be one, I guess -- at least until I find out what the duties and responsibilities are -- nor am I a dealer or someone who is concerned that I did not get a good deal.
I maintain that the entire ownership experience is more important than the price -- I do not maintain that one should not agressively pursue "discounts."
My dealer, who over the years became a social friend, indicates that there are people that are so difficult to deal with (because they hammer hammer hammer and belittle and "threaten" the dealer's personnel or write nasty grams to Audi berating the dealer, etc) that it makes it very difficult to provide an outstanding overall ownership experience.
I have seen evidence of this.
I have stood in line at the service counter at my dealer witnessing an "impossible" customer -- being demanding, derisive and just plain unreasonable.
My dealer sells both Porshces and Audis and basically will turn down business that he knows will cause a world of grief -- sometimes the evidence is right out there during the purchasing process. I believe I get better deals than almost every customer -- I do not have empiracle proof of this, of course -- and I also get great service.
My comments, previously have never suggested not wanting or not attempting to go for a good or "the best" deal -- I am however suggesting that we all have the right to set high expectations of our dealers and that they should have the same right to have high expectations when dealing with their customers.
Bluntly, I am saying that some people (customers and dealers alike) can be jerks. Life is too short to deal with them -- IF I WERE a dealer I would limit my exposure and business dealings with them if I could. As a customer, I will likewise not do business with them [jerks that is].
Now, let's go out there and get the best deals we can and also foster the best overall ownership experiences we can. Cars are, unfortunately, way too important here in the land of zero public transportation to have rocky relationships with their dealers and service providers.
Dec 06, 2002 (9:17 am)
What is the name of the dealershp you work for again.
Dec 06, 2002 (10:48 am)
I work, salary and commission free (but I do accept perks) for Audi of America -- of course they don't know it, unless they monitor these chat rooms.
My dealer who has been berry berry good to me is here in Cincinnati, Northland.
Shhh don't tell anyone that I'm shilling for AoA
Dec 06, 2002 (12:16 pm)
Since we know AoA and Northland have been good to you we are all dying to know......
What about baseball?
And don't give me this I take it one game at a time cliche' stuff either....
Motoring along in my rental Neon (10 squirrels short of a full cage) while the A4 is in the shop!
'Rocco- not surprised that the bumpers have received high marks at all. Suffer from firsthand experience. Any info on '01 model year or just '02's? Later.
#4685 of 6042 Another new/excited owner
Dec 06, 2002 (12:33 pm)
So I have been obsessing about the proper car to purchase for the past year. Definitely needed four-wheel drive here in northern California for Tahoe skiing. Closely scrutinized Volvo S60 AWD, 325xi, and A4 1.8Q, and sort of entertained new 9-3 due to cheap prices with gmsupplier discount. I am frequently made fun of by my fiancee because of my obsession for stupid details on purchases (for which she's happy in her ring). My goal was to stay around 30K. Among all of the variables, each of the three cars I seriously considered has its individual pros and cons on paper and one could make a fair argument as to the reason to purchase each. It boiled down to what profile I fit and the zen feeling I felt in each. The Saab is better than its parental units, but certainly put together with less attention to detail when evaluating its plastics, buttons, seams... BruceC35 in the 9-3 discussion summed up my reason for opting away from the BMW though it is a very solid automobile. The Volvo, is quite nice as well, though once you add in the required maintenance, the effective price jumps 1500-2000. And although I didn't connect with the car, almost bought it because of the good sales experience at Turner Volvo, here in Sacramento and the infrequency of seeing the AWD on the road. And finally, the Audi with whom I've always connected. I went back to both local dealers (Niello, Lasher) on evening Dec. 4 with no intention of purchasing immediately. The first dealer had an automatic dealer markup on all of its audis of $1900--a reflection of their sales philosophy. So back to Lasher. Was about to leave, when I ran into the salesman with whom I had previously spoken. Drove the car again. Ralph(sales) and I stepped into the manager's (Patrick) office and I asked him what price I could discuss with the fiancee when back home. No BS...instantly said 750 over invoice. So easy, it just made me smile. Being well informed, thanks to the likes of you people on this board, and not of the sort that markcincinatti disparagingly described just above, I just gave them the go ahead and couldn't even go to sleep that night due to the excitement. Got more options than I intended, but as Tom Cruise said in Risky Business, "sometimes you just have to say what the __". A4 1.8Q auto (fiancee can't drive stick), premium, xenon, cold weather, bose, 17 inchers (all weather) MSRP 33,085/Invoice 30,450 (shown by manager and confirmed on internet). Paid 31,200 (without tax) at 2.9%/60mos. Just a wee bit more fun than the loyal and maintenance-free 93 Camry I've had for 10 yrs, since before med school. God bless her.
Please let me know where I might explore an extended warranty. They asked $2920 for 7yr/100K. It would have been an uninformed decision and sounded pricey.
Thinking of the chip. Any experience in this area of the country, and the "value" regarding the ratio of money:smile. I hear if done properly, it is not detectable by said mechanics.
Cheers to all of you above for aiding in my decision and sharing my appreciation for details. Please pardon the lengthiness of this post--hope it might help others in my prior position.
Dec 07, 2002 (11:58 am)
I picked up my new '03 Audi silver A4 1.8TQM with platinum, premium, xenon, and 17" from Roger Beasely in Austin. Since fellow enthusiasts are forthcoming with price paid, my drive out was $30,500. I post this with a caveat, as the sales manager indicate that this was under special circumstance. No, I did not "jerk" my way through negotiation because rudeness is inexcusible in my book. Let me share an enlightening experience. I originally shopped around for a 1.8 CVT xenon and premium only, in black. When I inquired about such car, a Houston dealer rudely told me they only have cars with 17" wheels on A4's. He condescendingly explained that according to "research" (please, I'm a med student) buyers overall demanded such tire configuration, and imply that I was odd for wanting the standard 15". Anyway, the good folks in Austin said it was no problem at all to swap them out. We negotiated and came to an agreement. The car I wanted was in Houston, however, as I later found that out. But instead of going to Houston to make a deal, I honored my agreement with Austin (Roger Beasley), the way I was taught. Next comes the kicker. Since I had inquired about the car over the phone with the Houston dealership earlier, they were reluctant to let the car go, and gave Austin dealers a hard time: Houston we have a problem. They said another person was interested in the car, and was essentailly biding time to see if I would go make a deal there. This really infuriated me. My Austin salesman (Brian) at one point asked me to call Houston to say that I was buying from Austin! I told Austin that I did not want any car from the Houston dealership, and leave that car there while I chose another one. At signing, Andy the sales manager told me that he still gets calls from Houston asking if he wants that car. The point is, I believe in honest, up-and-up deals. I think that comes through in my negotiation, and that is way I got the deal I got. Rudeness goes both ways, remember that when you negotiate. Getting good, nay, GREAT deals require Dale Carnegie-like deftness, and not bumbling swings of a "jerk". Demand a great deal and you won't get one. Getting a great deal IS getting the LOWEST possible price the dealer is willing to go under circumstances described in my previous post. I respect my sales team at Austin. Will I see them at cocktail parties or other social functions? Probably not. It is enough for me that we part the deal in a win-win situation with mutual good will. These guys are building one of the biggest dealerships in town, and like me they are young, ambitious, and willing to go where most fat, well-established dealerships are unwilling to go. As one Houston dealer told me upon hearing my drive-out: "(silience)" I called them not to see if they could beat it, because I knew no one can, but as a parting shot, an obscene gesture for the rudeness and trouble they caused. If you are a dealer reading this, remember this. Damage to your reputation due to bad customer relations can burn you like a wild forest fire through a single incindiary internet post.
OK, back to the car, which is after what all this dealing and obsessing is all about. WOW. I was driving home yesterday, and rotated my friends through the passenger seat. I took some hairpin turns and inevitably the response before and after the turn is "hey man, yooooooooooooooooou're..... damn, how did the car do that?" I can't remember being this excited since I got into med school after the numerous attempts. You know that quote by Emerson which he said that being well dressed gives a man a sense fo well-being that religion sometimes fail to bestow? He did not drive an Audi.