Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Mar 28, 2001 (2:27 am)
Post 208, 7 Series board says:
The car (2001 BMW 7 L) rides more like a sports car than a luxury car. It's just to tight and you feel every bump in the road. If I wanted a sports car I would have bought one.
He or she talks about other cars owned including various American cars and a Jaguar.
pablo1 writes: taut character is more a sign of dated chassis than of performance-orientation.
With all due respect the 7 Series does have a different character than the LS430. It is performance oriented. The above post was upset that the BMW did not ride like a Cadillac. What is modern about that.
Mercedes fans spent 10 years saying the LS400 was nothing but a fake LS400. Now a 7 Series is an inferior Lexus? Is the IS a more modern 3 Series?
My advice is: do not believe that every cookie cutter cuts to the shape of a Lexus or the Mercedes it famously copied- if you do you might end up like the owner above with a car you hate.
Mar 28, 2001 (7:45 am)
replying in kind to something you consider absurd is equally absurd.
A taut suspension is not a sign of inferior design -- it's the direct recult of tuning the suspension more for handling than ride, and is something at which BMW excels. Even the vaunted Mercedes has so far been unable to duplicate BMW's wonderful mix of handling and ride. Lexus concentrates more on ride and NVH -- and excels at that.
None of these cars are a fake anything -- they all reflect their creators' attempts to offer the finest luxury car possible in that price category, and they all succeed in some areas to the detriment of others. The BMW probably succeeds best overall, with a wonderful sense of balance, luxury, performance and ride. It also has styling that smokes the competition, in my opinion.
The only thing that seems to stick in some peoples' craw is the similarity of the LS430 styling to the previous generation S-class. That's obviously not something that bothers the people who buy them..
Mar 28, 2001 (9:44 am)
...how can the 7-series still be regarded as "performance oriented" when it is the heaviest car in this group and the slowest from 0-60? If it's sports prowess you want, go for an M5.
#998 of 24726 The BMW is not the slowest.
Mar 28, 2001 (12:27 pm)
In the test AutoWorld conducted, the 740's 6.4 came in a close second to the LS430's identical 6.4 (the Lexus edged it in the 1/4 mile), even though it outweighs the Lexus by more than 300 lbs. AutoWorld called the 740's drivetrain "to die for."
The Mercedes came in well behind, at 7.1.
Everything is relative -- in this group of cars, the BMW is clearly the most sports-oriented -- although it is no sports car, nor does it pretend to be.
Look at me, defending BMW's honor! I crack myself up....
Mar 28, 2001 (12:55 pm)
In every test I've seen, the MB S500 does 0-60 in 6.1 sec, LS430 in 6.3 sec (these agree with Lexus & MB brochures). Not bad for 4133 lb.(MB) and 3955 lb. (LS) cars. For my extra $$, I can beat the #$% out of an LS by almost a quarter of a second!
Mar 28, 2001 (3:23 pm)
The BMW 740i, with automatic (which is what everybody seems to order them with) is decidedly slower than any of the other cars, including the Jag.
Needless to say, none of these cars, even with stick, comes close to the XJR's acceleration. That said, *I* did not buy the XJR for "sports orientation". It would be quite a weird line of thought to buy any of these cars if one wants something that even remorelty resembles a sportscar. That is, again, M5 territory. Or get a real sportscar.
Mar 28, 2001 (7:10 pm)
Apples to oranges -- the S500 is a V12, is it not? And how much more do you have to pay for that option? Ditto the XJR.
V8 to V8, the Lexus wins, followed by the BMW, with the Mercedes and Jaguar training badly.
PS -- when Lexus introduces its V12, we can revisit this comparison.
Mar 28, 2001 (7:53 pm)
no the S500 is not a v12
Mar 28, 2001 (10:18 pm)
The XJR is entirely in the price range of the cars in here, if averages the Lexus to Merc range. The XJR is easily in the range of the BMW price-wise, and actually is *much* faster than any of these. 5.4s to 60 or so, if you believe mags. With 370HP and the lightest weight (though no lightweight), there is no doubt. But I am still not saying it is a "better" car. I am just saying that all in all, the BMW 7-series perception as the "sports" option is anchored in history, not in current product reality. Not that the BMW is not a great car.
And the V12 is the S600 or CL600 in the Merc line. 500s are still V8s.
#1004 of 24726 denniswade...
Mar 28, 2001 (10:20 pm)
...you should really run the comparisons on cars.com before making such performance rankings. I know I did before buying.